Dumbass personality tests and job applications

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Just for the record, i do too. It would really be nice if certain people would stop looking down their noses at others. I think she made a good point and i do agree with her that these personality tests are pointless and unfair.

I don't think anybody here is arguing those personality tests aren't pointless, unfair and stupid. What we have an issue with is how the OP chose to express her feelings about them.

[Gurndigarn]

It kept asking the same question over and over versed in different ways, thats a waste of my time. If you are going to try and trick someone into saying something they dont mean, then the test results arent "real" in my opinion.

Ooooh! Ooooh! I can explain that one! Call me!

These things are designed by psychologists. Who have a long history with making these things. For some reason, they think they work. Me, I'm not so sure. Yeah, they can tell you what you're like, but that has no bearing on what you will do. You get thieves in extroverts, introverts, gregarious, shy, studious, dim-witted... what you are like does not have a lot of bearing on whether or not you will steal, laze around, disregard authority, etc. You will simply have different reasons for what you do and possibly different techniques, at most.

Anyway, they're made by psychologists. One of the things they do is put in various checks to see if people are trying to cheat the test by writing down what they think people want to hear. Which is why you will see variations on a theme. How they determine this, I'm not sure. You might have noticed that I don't worship psychology. It has its uses, but I think it's like a lot of high-end professions, where some of the people doing it think they're the be-all and end-all of creation.

[Gravekeeper]

Anyway, they're made by psychologists. One of the things they do is put in various checks to see if people are trying to cheat the test by writing down what they think people want to hear. Which is why you will see variations on a theme. How they determine this, I'm not sure. You might have noticed that I don't worship psychology. It has its uses, but I think it's like a lot of high-end professions, where some of the people doing it think they're the be-all and end-all of creation.

I know they like to use the Keirsey or Myer-Briggs in team building exercises and what not. Though I doubt they apply the entire test to hiring processes ( They're huge ass tests in their natural state. )

I wouldn't trust Myer-Briggs for hiring, its weak vs people trying to guess the "right" answer. Although its interesting to take just for personal insight. Keirsey on the other hand...I've taken Keirsey before out of curiousity. Long ass test but it was actually quite insightful into my personality. ( Counselor - ( INFJ ) here. =p )

Not sure what sort of effective rate they have for hiring....Google probably knows.....

....and so it does.

The test is being used combined with other things ( Resume, references, etc ) to compare you to the company's current staff. Its NOT comparing you to any sort of ideal universal employee archetype. What they're doing is using the test on their own employees and then using that as a benchmark for what kind of personalities perform well in what roles inside their own company.

Basically they see which personalities do well in their work environment then they award you bonus points if you hit any of those marks on your own results. So it DOES work for them. But understand its being matched against their own staff, NOT some universal benchmark. So if you apply at 3 places and all 3 give you the test, answer all 3 the same ( and honestly, imo ). Because each company will be looking for something different. ( If the company needs unethical assholes, thats what the test is looking for. So there's no "right" answer. )

However, the test is only a portion of what they screen with. Its not that you made one "wrong" answer and they toss out your entire resume.

[blas]

We've all been angry and came to this site to fume a time or two. Even if some of us won't admit it. Some of us have said some pretty stupid things when we were mad on here. Even if some of us won't admit it.

We've all disagreed with things others have said.

I think sometimes we all just need to reflect on times that we were livid and couldn't wait to come home and type up a big post for everyone to read. Then everyone read it and disagreed with us or a real disagreement ensued after. It's happened to just about everyone. Not the first time.

[KellyHabersham]

I'm not a big fan of personality tests myself, as I too have (or at least I suspect I have) been turned down for an interview or job offer because I didn't score the way that particular store/company expects applicants to. Sears told me I wasn't qualified to work there, Target wasn't interested in even interviewing me,.......but since I've actually had experience in retail now, I might have better luck with that.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

I know they like to use the Keirsey or Myer-Briggs in team building exercises and what not. Though I doubt they apply the entire test to hiring processes ( They're huge ass tests in their natural state. )

Yeah I was introduced to the Kiersey sorter at a job. The point was to help us understand one another better so we could all work together with less friction. I got really into those particular personality types (ENFP here; the 'champion') and was able to use them to get my family to understand why I was so different from them. They are all very similar types, and I am way out in left field.

The tests done in hiring processes, at least in my experience, are nothing like the Kiersey sorter. I don't even know why they call them 'personality' tests. They are more designed to try and weed out unethical people. Problem lies in that a truly unethical person would just lie on the test to make themselves look good.

[Gravekeeper]

Yeah I was introduced to the Kiersey sorter at a job. The point was to help us understand one another better so we could all work together with less friction. I got really into those particular personality types (ENFP here; the 'champion') and was able to use them to get my family to understand why I was so different from them. They are all very similar types, and I am way out in left field.

Yeah, I found it a rather fascinating test myself. I got a way out type as well ( Counselor ). It was actually kind of enlightening. Looks like we're both freaks ( Champion is only around 3% of the population as is Counselor. ). No one understands us! =p

Myer-Briggs is full of flaws though and I hear some companies are trying to use it. Which seems like a Bad Idea(tm). Some of these employment personality tests are probably watered down mini-versions of Myer or Keirsey with several instances of reworded questions to try and trip up anyone aiming for the "right" answers.

Keirsey doesn't have right or wrong answers though. Its more up to what the company is looking for to put into which position.

Still I would question the wisdom of any company relying on them exclusively. They're a good tool but it should not be the only factor. Skills, experience, etc should all be playing an important role in considering a new hire too.

[Gurndigarn]

The test is being used combined with other things ( Resume, references, etc ) to compare you to the company's current staff. Its NOT comparing you to any sort of ideal universal employee archetype. What they're doing is using the test on their own employees and then using that as a benchmark for what kind of personalities perform well in what roles inside their own company.

It still doesn't mean all that much in the long run. Two people with similar answers-- possibly even similar personalities-- may have completely different work ethics, they may have different work styles, different motivations. Those tests can't count for enough factors to base any serious judgement calls; they're a waste of time; and they're more annoyance than they're a help. Consider the case that started this whole discussion. We have a time-waster that, IMO, does nothing that a quick glance at an application can't do. But after taking it, Elvis is quite likely to have exited the building-- not only as a potential employee, but also as a customer. For what? Nothing that any manager with a bit of experience couldn't do just by glancing over an application. These things cost the company money, but don't make it back in any other fashion.

[Gravekeeper]

It still doesn't mean all that much in the long run. Two people with similar answers-- possibly even similar personalities-- may have completely different work ethics, they may have different work styles, different motivations.

Didn't say it was working. Just that thats what they're probably doing ( So sayeth the wise Google ).

Ultimately I think it should probably stay in the realm of team building. Personality tests that is. They can be a good tool but like all tools you need to know how to use them properly. ;p

[martin]

What's really weird is that I took this same exact test roughly 4 years ago when I applied to the same company and was interviewed and actually OFFERED the job ! This time I couldn't even get an interview so there was nothing else about me to base the rejection on.

This looks like it could be the real reason you didn't get an interview.

When you were offered the job did you decline? Declining the job and even how you declined the job could have left a negative impression with the company.

The whole "you failed our personality test" bit might be to get you to not bother applying there again. It's also an easy way to brush you off without them having to come up with some reason not to give you an interview.

Of course this is just speculation and without being privy to the conversations of the managers, there is no way to be sure.

Good luck with the job search.

[katie kaboom]

What we have an issue with is how the OP chose to express her feelings about them.

Why? Are we all so perfect that we can look down our noses at people who think and act differently than the majority of the posters on this site? No one is perfect, but you'd never know that, reading this site. Every time someone handles a situation differently than the majority would, they get ganged up on for it. I'm sorry but that's not fair.

[Broomjockey]

Why? Are we all so perfect that we can look down our noses at people who think and act differently than the majority of the posters on this site? No one is perfect, but you'd never know that, reading this site. Every time someone handles a situation differently than the majority would, they get ganged up on for it. I'm sorry but that's not fair.

No, this is about someone exhibiting behaviour that parallels SC behaviour, and us not being hypocritical about it.

Think that's harsh? Then chew on this scenario:

Customer walks in to gas station, wants to buy cigs, but doesn't have ID. Customer is 29, but looks young. Customer is technically old enough to buy the cigs, but the cashier can't confirm the customer is old enough, apoligizes (or not) and refuses the sale. Customer then proceeds to leave and write a letter to corporate complaining that they've been buying cigs for years, and this evil policy of IDing people who are old enough has to stop, and if they don't, the customer is going to go to every site on the internet they can think of to bad mouth the company. We catch wind and then say how crazy the customer is for expecting corp to change policy after a rant like that.

Now, it's not an exact parallel, as IDing for cigs has a law component to it, but those who read PFB, how often are there letters stating that corporate needs to get rid of a rule that makes the customer's life harder?

This case, cigs = job, ID = personality test, and the rest lines up fairly well, with Elvis as the customer.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Why? Are we all so perfect that we can look down our noses at people who think and act differently than the majority of the posters on this site? No one is perfect, but you'd never know that, reading this site. Every time someone handles a situation differently than the majority would, they get ganged up on for it. I'm sorry but that's not fair.

Come on, you know better than this.

Would you accept somebody ranting and raving at you at your job for something that's beyond your control?

Like I said before, we are not arguing in favor of those dumb personality tests. We just think the OP expressed her frustration regarding them in a way that makes her look bad and doesn't make the company any more likely to reconsider the use of those tests in the screening processes.

If you can't differentiate between the two, I'm sorry.

[teelaz]

Elvis,

I don't know if this helps or not, but just to let you know that the tests are a pain in the a#*, I also think they suck. I just wanted to tell you what happened to me about a month ago. I am also a 43 year old who has worked in retail for about 26 yrs. I applided to a new Best Buy online and took that test. I was never called.

My son who is half my age also applided online for the same store and also took the same test. He was called 3 hrs after he did it. He got the job (and here is the kicker) because he was very outgoing and loud. I don't mean he just got along with people I mean he was pretty much crazy. (which he is, he will say and do just about anything).

What I am trying to tell you is that even though you have the experance, it might not be enough, they might be looking for that extra something. I am very outgoing but would never act like my son does. I found out that they did hire some people without alot of experiance but had the personality they wanted.

Does it suck? yes! But companys are changing the way they operate to try and improve customer service. Is it fair? No, but then again I'm sure you know that life is not fair. I was not happy that I wasn't called, but I had to be happy that he was called.

As far as the people on this site, I think that they are pretty supportive of one another. I hope that you find something soon. We have all been there and know that it sucks and is pretty scary. Good luck

[myswtghst]

I have to say, after reading this thread, that I agree with BroomJockey, IPF and GK. KatieKaboom, I don't think anyone is looking down their nose at Elvis, I think we're just trying to make the point that it's perfectly alright to be upset, it's plenty fine to come on here and vent wildly, but once you're putting it down in words to be sent directly to the company, it's best to do it calmly and rationally, in a way that they can appreciate and take seriously.

When my customers come to me with a detailed complaint, explaining exactly what is wrong, calmly, I will do everything in my power to help them. Much the same way that a letter from Elvis, showing this company what they are missing out on, would have a great impact.

When my customers come to me shrieking that they hate this company and can't understand how we're still in business, I'm going to wind up with a lot bigger headache trying to figure out what was wrong in the first place. Much the same way as Elvis' OP seems to show them that their crappy and pointless "test" saved them from hiring someone irrational and without good people skills.

I'm grateful that everyone on here is openminded and willing to give their opinions, but in a much more respectful and much less one-sided manner than they seem to over at PFB. I like feeling like when I post here, it will get read and any responses, even if they disagree with me, will be respectful, logical, and well thought out, which I think the responses in this thread are.

And as a final thought, Elvis, job-hunting sucks. Places are using personality tests, experience requirements, and education requirements that are often unnecessary for the job at hand as a way of screening out an excessive number of applicants. This sucks, and it does often mean people who wouldn't do as good of a job as you would will get hired, but it's an unfortunate way of life. Hopefully, if people with your experience can show companies using these methods what they are missing, they might be able to change their ways. But the angry rants should stay here, in a place for friends to sympathize, rather than being sent to someone at the company who will probably just disregard, fairly or unfairly, and move on with their day.