Shift manager snapped, sent me home tonight(Language, LONG).

[blas]

Please understand Terry, we are trying to help you. Everyone who has responded to you in this thread does have your best interest at heart. We may be saying things you don't want to hear, but sometimes when you seek advice, you aren't going to hear what you want. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I can tell from your posts and threads that you just want to do the right thing, and in return, you want the right thing done. In an ideal world, that would happen. But things aren't always going to go that way.

No one is against you here, Terry, we are just telling you the truth. From experience and from the heart. We all understand how you feel, but we cannot lie to you and tell you that things will change when they probably won't. At this point, it is best that you find somewhere else to work in a more professional enviornment where your voice is more likely to be heard than just ignored.

[Argabarga]

Best thing to do is to try and fly under the radar until you have yourself a new job lined up, then dump that place as fast as you can. There's no sense in trying to fight this fight, for reasons mentioned above. You may be right, in fact, you're probably 100% right, but, this isn't about who's right, it's about who has the power to terminate your employment.

Look for someplace that treats you better as an employee instead of trying to reform the managment of this current place to see things your way, because they'll never do that, even if you are doing it the right way, all you'll earn for yourself in that reguard is righteous unemployment.

[Pedersen]

What kind of professional manager would want to create even more hostility? Why couldn't she have just LISTENED. That's right, LISTEN. Would it not have been better if she had just listened to me?

Terry: I've been reading a story in progress lately, and it's actually summarized a few facts of life in very specific terms. These are facts that are directly relevant to you, so I will quote them here (and, when the whole story is done, I will post a link to it for all to read).

So, those relevant facts I mentioned:

• Life is not fair.
• The universe does not care.
• You always have a choice.
• Wishing never makes it so.
• A person is responsible for their own happiness.
• It is impossible to change the character of another.

Look, it would have been wonderful for the manager to have stopped, listened, and addressed your issues. It would be great if the GM would do it, too. Don't bet on it happening.

Here's what you have shown so far: You are right, they are wrong. No other options. A willingness to tell them so, regardless of suitability of the time. A willingness to interrupt work in progress to convey your attitude of right/wrong. A willingness to demand that others be reprimanded for actions they have taken around you.

Bluntly put, if I were the GM, I'd probably call you when I got back, and tell you not to come back.

If you want to preserve your job, then here's what you will need to do: Tuesday morning, get up, showered, etc, and make yourself look good. Not so far as a business suit, but look good. Get to the store by 8AM. When you get there, ask a very simple question, and don't change the wording of this: "Mr. GM, could you and I please talk about some issues when you have a few minutes?"

I repeat, don't change the wording. You are addressing him with respect. You are stating that issues have occurred, and you wish to discuss them. And you are asking to discuss them on his schedule, not yours. You might be waiting for a couple of hours, so bring along a book or two. Buy something to eat, sit down, and read.

When he finally does have time to address the issue, start out with this: "Mr. GM, I realize that both AM and SM feel that I was speaking out of turn. After having reviewed the situation, I can understand why they feel that way. I do apologize for how I communicated these issues to them. These issues still exist, though, and affect my ability to do my job to the best of my ability. Please help me to address these issues, and you will see that I can do the job extremely well."

After that, you can list the issues.

Oh, and to explain why AM and SM would feel you were speaking out of turn? Two items to note:

First: You were trying to address an issue in the middle of dealing with customers. This issue addressed runners who were not on the clock (and, from your original message, not even in the building). As such, the issue could have been dealt with at any time while you were on shift with SM and/or AM. You did not have to interrupt dealing with customers to address this.

Second: The nature of what was said could easily have been taken as "Well, this is what I've already been told to do, so I'm doing it that way, instead of how you've told me to do it." End result: Your SM and your AM feel as if you're directly challenging their authority.

With either of those views of the situation being passed on to the GM, you are going to be seen as a troublemaker, or as someone who is very high maintenance. Both of those types of people are not desirable in fast food positions, and are very expendable. Make no mistake, your job is on the line, and you put it there.

If you want to keep it, you are going to apologize to the GM for the misunderstandings, and you are going to do it before he calls you on Tuesday to tell you you're fired.

I've read this thread through and through. Make no mistake, SM and AM treated you poorly. But you prompted it by failing to think about what message you were sending to them. Let's face it, the two possibilities you gave to them were "Other people don't do it this way! Why aren't you correcting them?" and "Other people don't do it this way! I won't either!" Neither of those wins points with any manager.

What should you have done that would have preserved the peace? Try this statement: "Right SM. Sorry for the mixup. By the way, so as to prevent future mixups, can I talk to you afterwards about some training issues I've had?"

Evaluate that statement. You're agreeing with Sm. Apologizing for making a mistake (source of mistake does not matter. You made one. Apologize for it). Pointing out that issues exist, and that you want to address them.

I've probably pissed you off. I apologize for that. But right now, you need some harsh words. I'm hoping that they will get through to you, and you can go to the GM and keep your job. I really do hope so.

[Mr. Rager!]

Doing what she was telling me to do was EXACTLY what I was doing. I wasn't being insubordinate. I told her about how the runners would get mad at me, and she completely blew it off, neglecting her duties as a manager. When you're a manager, you MUST have the mental skills to handle employee situations in a professional manner, which she plainly didn't do.

What kind of professional manager would want to create even more hostility? Why couldn't she have just LISTENED. That's right, LISTEN. Would it not have been better if she had just listened to me?

REALIZE THIS: I AM NOT THE BAD GUY HERE! I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO LOSE MY JOB, MY SOURCE OF MONEY, BECAUSE OF THE INCOMPETENCE OF THOSE ASSHOLE MANAGERS! THE GM NEEDS TO DO AN OVERHAUL!

Once again, she told you what to do... just shut up and do it. Bring it to her attention after your shift. "Hey, this is why I was doing it this way." You had the opportunity to be more diplomatic about it, but you chose not to. Don't sit there and tell the manager you're doing it wrong because a subordinate told you to do it a certain way, it doesn't matter. Do it how your manager tells you to do it.

I don't see how the manager was creating hostility. They told you to do it one way, you didn't do it. They told you to do it a certain way again, and you proceeded to tell them that someone else told you to do it differently. Yeah, it does seem as if you were going to undermind them. Then when they told you to leave you shouldn't have created a scene. Best thing to do would've been to call in later and ask about it.

Yeah, they are our superiors. No, they don't have to really listen to you. It's good for effective management, but it's not required.

And, I wasn't trying to say that they were in the right... but with your litte all in caps outburst, I'm starting to think that maybe you did give them a bit of attitude. Just from how you're acting with me here.

[PepperElf]

The first thing you'll learn in the wonderful world of Mickey D's is that you do what your told. If they ask you to crap putty balls, your only job is to ask what color and how many. There are way too many high schoolers waiting in the wings that are just chomping at the bit to get your job. It's been like this since I worked there back in the late 60's.

and as one of my friends found out.... if you're pregnant and have doctor's instructions limiting how much you can carry, the manager can overrule it. and the manager can threaten to fire anyone who helps the pregnant woman carry the load.

and then when you miscarry they can fire you for taking time off to recover



the only reason she didnt sue was because she just wanted to recover and mourn.

[blas]

PepperElf, please do not tell me that is a true story.

Good luck Terry, and please, again, keep in mind that we do care about you and want what is best for you. This may all be more trouble than what it's worth.

[theredbaron47]

Terry,

I basically agree with most everything Pedersen has said. The bottom line is that you are expendable, your managers (AM and SM) are not (or aren't as expendable as you, rather).

Pedersen sounds exactly like one of my parents, if they were to respond to this thread. If there's one thing I've learned about my parents so far, it's that they are almost always right about these kinds of things.

Take Pedersen's advice. It's good advice.

As for my own to add? If you had the slightest bit of attitude during the initial altercation with your SM and your AM, make sure you check that at the door when meeting with your GM. Anything less will almost guarantee you a pink slip.

I'll be sending good thoughts your way, and hoping that it all works out for you.

RB

[Secret Shopper]

Terry,

I basically agree with most everything Pedersen has said. The bottom line is that you are expendable, your managers (AM and SM) are not (or aren't as expendable as you, rather).

Pedersen sounds exactly like one of my parents, if they were to respond to this thread. If there's one thing I've learned about my parents so far, it's that they are almost always right about these kinds of things.

Take Pedersen's advice. It's good advice.

As for my own to add? If you had the slightest bit of attitude during the initial altercation with your SM and your AM, make sure you check that at the door when meeting with your GM. Anything less will almost guarantee you a pink slip.

I'll be sending good thoughts your way, and hoping that it all works out for you.

RB

Good advise! Utter humilty is the wisest course. Self-rightous indignation should stay at home. It was a communication breakdown, you are sorry for it, and you want to clarify the policy as you have been getting mixed messages from other staff as to what the procedure is. You are so sorry for the whole thing. You really want to be a strong team player, how can you improve?

Meanwhile, keep your eyes on the want ads.

[Terry]

Once again, she told you what to do... just shut up and do it. Bring it to her attention after your shift. "Hey, this is why I was doing it this way." You had the opportunity to be more diplomatic about it, but you chose not to. Don't sit there and tell the manager you're doing it wrong because a subordinate told you to do it a certain way, it doesn't matter. Do it how your manager tells you to do it.

I don't see how the manager was creating hostility. They told you to do it one way, you didn't do it. They told you to do it a certain way again, and you proceeded to tell them that someone else told you to do it differently. Yeah, it does seem as if you were going to undermind them. Then when they told you to leave you shouldn't have created a scene. Best thing to do would've been to call in later and ask about it.

Yeah, they are our superiors. No, they don't have to really listen to you. It's good for effective management, but it's not required.

And, I wasn't trying to say that they were in the right... but with your litte all in caps outburst, I'm starting to think that maybe you did give them a bit of attitude. Just from how you're acting with me here.

First off, I didn't tell her about what the runners were doing for an excuse to do it that way, which I've already said. I did it BECAUSE it is a problem IN AND OF ITSELF that needs to be taken care of.

Secondly, if this was the first time I've notified the managers of the problem, then you would have a better point about the timing, but that's not the case. I've already told 4 managers prior to this about the problem with the runners, and every time they either ignored me or didn't do anything about it. So speaking with the GM IS what needs to be done.

[Pedersen]

This turned long winded, much more so than intended. My first post wasn't meant to address any specific statements that had been made. This one is. Terry, please take this as me trying to help you keep your job. I really am trying to help you see how to do it, and I'm worried you're going to ignore it totally.

I hope you don't, I really do hope.

Pedersen sounds exactly like one of my parents, if they were to respond to this thread.

Oh man, now I'm being compared to parents. When did I turn old? Or even worse, responsible?

As for my own to add? If you had the slightest bit of attitude during the initial altercation with your SM and your AM, make sure you check that at the door when meeting with your GM. Anything less will almost guarantee you a pink slip.

Well said. Wish I had remembered to add that in.

I really shouldn't be in this situation at all because everything I've done, I technically am allowed to do.

Re-read that. "Technically, I'm allowed to do everything I've done." (to paraphrase). How many of the people on this board go nuts when a customer says "Hey, technically, I'm allowed this, so I'm going to do it"?

That should be a warning bell right there that maybe you're not completely in the right.

I plan on talking to GM about the lacking of mental qualifications these 2 managers have. I am going to ask that he put them on probation and start observing them. Also, since AM makes the schedule, I will explain to him that if she cuts my hours, I will see this as a retaliation. It is against McDonald's policy to retaliate against an employee who has reported a problem. I will also let him know that if I sense any unnecessary hostility from them, that he will be hearing from me again. If I don't see the desired results from GM, I will ask how I can contact his supervisor.

And this paragraph is one humongous threat. "contact his supervisor" "against McDonald's policy to retaliate" "I will see this as a retaliation"

You left a few out: "contact my lawyer" "contact the media" "have your job" etc.

You might very well be a victim here, but you destroy your message with these sorts of statements. Worse, you set yourself up for being let go.

Oh, but it would be retaliation? How about this: You were insubordinate to two separate managers. Explain your threats to the GM, make your demands, and now we can make it three. Three writeups are possible, all within the course of a single session. You'll be fired, and unable to collect unemployment, within the hour.

Corporate won't listen, since they'll view your complaint as retaliatory, especially once they see three writeups for insubordination in your file.

I have strong evidence that corporate policy has been broken by these 2 managers. Sometimes it takes talking to corporate to set things straight. Also, based off the responses from some people in this thread, there seems to be a lot of people who are quick to give up regardless of whether or not they have a strong case. If I get fired, do you think I'm going to stop there? No.

You have strong evidence? That would be... signed confessions? Surveillance camera footage? Witnesses? Or your word (the word of an individual) against the word of two managers?

If it's the latter, your evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on, not unless you've been documenting since day one in a spiral bound notebook.

Do we think you're going to stop there? Well, honestly, I hope you do. Right now, you're up the fecal river, without a paddle, leaks in the boat, and asking for more of it to rain down. And that's before any job loss.

If you did manage to get your job back by doing everything you've threatened here, you'd be on permanent special cleanup crew. Your job would be to clean behind the fryers, get under the grill and make that floor shine. You'd be dealing with chemicals that make you want to read the MSDS on them, to make sure you're going to be healthy after using them for your four hour shifts (and that's all you'd get at a time).

They'd make a job specifically for you, and make it so hellish that you want to quit. And then they'd make you keep doing the job, with somebody micromanaging you to make sure you don't lean or take an unauthorized break. Every time you punch in two minutes late, there'd be a discussion about your tardiness. Every time you punch in two minutes early, there'd be a discussion about costing the company money.

Believe me, they can (and will) find a way to make the job so bad for you, personally, that you will quit on your own. I've been the victim of such treatment. It ain't pretty, not at all. Hell, they might add an overnight shift for special cleanings, and put you on it with a manager whose sole job it is to sit there and watch you work.

And if you don't like that, then what? The response from management will be "Well, we're bending over backwards to make sure that we don't make situations where you can be insubordinate, don't have to deal with mixed training signals, and even making a special schedule to ensure you get enough hours, and that still isn't good enough for you?"

Would it suck? HELL YES. You'd still be screwed, and you will have put yourself there. Back down, do it now, and swallow some of that victim's pride you've got, or else get ready for a visit in new levels of hell you didn't know existed.

The hell? We're on first name basis with everyone here, including the GM.

I remember being on a first name basis with the GM, and with the person over him in the franchise chain I worked at. Don't let that fool you into thinking things are going well.

Doing what she was telling me to do was EXACTLY what I was doing.

No, it wasn't. You were doing what you felt you should be doing. Namely, you were educating the SM about the issues you had. Of course, you were doing it in the middle of dealing with customers, in front of other employees, and telling her how she was failing to do her job since other people do it the way you started to do it.

But nothing like being insubordinate, or undermining her authority in front of everybody else, right?

When you're a manager, you MUST have the mental skills to handle employee situations in a professional manner, which she plainly didn't do.

Simply put, wrong. The job of a manager is to do a few very specific things. At the very top of the list: Make sure the job gets done in as expedient and courteous a manner as possible. Second (and it's a distant second) is dealing with employee issues, especially when it's just one employee who seems hellbent on making waves when there is a job to get done.

I'm the type of person who stands up for myself when I know I'm right, and I AM RIGHT.

See my post above for how much your being right actually matters.

It is a problem with THEM.

Sorry, no. The problem is with unrealistic expectations on your part. Couple that with a bad sense of timing and less than great communication skills, and the issue is with, quite squarely, with you.

THE GM NEEDS TO DO AN OVERHAUL!

As I said in my earlier post: If I were the GM, and I were being told by a new person (who, I might mention, hasn't even made it past the usual 90 day probationary period) that I needed to do an overhaul of the store I've been running for a long while, I'd do an overhaul alright: I'd can you.

If I were in a generous mood (which, much to my chagrin, I usually am), I'd sit down with you, and tell you that there are no more warnings. I'll be nice, and just write you up as on final notice. Rock the boat again, though, and you're gone.

I am being harsh here, and I'm sorry to be so harsh. However, you are not hearing what people are telling you, not as far as I can determine. This means that you, very likely, are going to go down to the store tomorrow, and demand action. Unfortunately, if you demand it with the GM in the same manner as you've expressed it here, the action you will see is you being let go. Of course, that will only happen after several writeups have gone into your file, to ensure that even if you do call corporate, they will view you poorly, and ignore your complaints.

And you've already given them enough ammo to make that happen.

Mods: I might have crossed the line with some of this, and I'm sure it can be perceived as a personal attack. I hope not, as I genuinely am trying to help, but can understand if the mod-hammer has to come down on me. I'll apologize right here and now if I have crossed the line.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I don't think you went over the line at all Pedersen. In fact I too get a sinking feeling we're talking to a wall here.

I'm picturing the meeting that is going to take place--the manager calmly and dispassionately giving their side of the story ("OP refused to follow instructions from us and got an attitude in front of customers and we sent OP home") and the OP butting in and giving more attitude ("I'm right, the managers are wrong, I demand action be taken against them")

And then OP will be jobless because it is much easier to fire a peon who's been with the company 2 months than a manager who's been with the company much longer, let alone 2 of them.

Terry,you don't have to take our advice. Ultimately it's up to you what you're going to say at the meeting Tuesday. But just understand we're trying to help you avoid being fired.

[Terry]

Okay, I think a lot of people here don't know what the definition of "insubordination" is. Insubordination is the refusal to obey, which isn't what happened. I WAS doing what she told me(if you even read the OP), however, I was telling her about a problem I was having with the runners that needed to be taken care of, and for those who actually read the OP would know there is a sign in the break room that says "If you have a problem with an employee, then you need to tell a manager. If an agreement cannot be made, then follow the chain of command to GM". Not only that, at the time, she was only at the position of runner temporarily. She moved the runner to back line, and she took over running for the time being. The runner that she moved is one of the runners I've been having problems with. Also, to tell me that I should have waited until my shift is over is ludicrous. Part of ANY employees job, INCLUDING managers', is the ability to handle situations ON THE FLY. I sure do hope everyone here knows what "on the fly" means so I don't have to explain that one. This isn't one of those things that take a half hour to address. The only thing it involves doing is:

1. Manager walks over to runner.
2. Manager says to runner "The drive thru server is the one who is responsible for serving orders. It is not your job to tell the server when to push the serve button".

That's all it would take. Now, if the runner disobeyed that order, then THAT my friends would be considered insubordination.

Does that not sound like the better way of taking care of a problem? Managers still have responsibilities just like the rest of us, and when a problem occurs, you FIX it, but what did this manager do? She threw a fit about me making a LEGITIMATE complaint, ignored it, and then lashed out at me when I said I was going to talk to GM, which is my right as employee to do. She was threatened by this, but it even says in the break room "If you have a problem with an employee, then you need to tell a manager. If an agreement cannot be made, then follow the chain of command to GM". Ha! And SHE takes pride in following the rules!

[king4aday]

I have no idea if you have a legitimate complaint or not, but I do feel as though you picked the wrong time to voice your concern. As a manager myself, I would have done exactly the same thing your manager did. If a concern/complaint came up, I would expect that they would give me the opportunity and convenience to be able to sit down and talk to them one on one in confidentiality.

If someone were to come up to me in front of other workers and customers, and started to voice complaints, I would probably do the same thing your supervisor did. Now I have the luck of being in a job which isnt high stress (most of the time) but managers of fast food restaurants like Mc Donalds ARE under a lot of stress, especially when they are in the middle of helping customers.

The only suggestion that I would have is next time, simply say "ok...I can do it this way, but can we set aside a time to talk when we arent busy?" Then the manager isnt feeling ambushed in front of customers and other employees. The office is a much better place to talk then by the drive thru window.

[Terry]

Well I can certainly understand that it is more convenient to "sit down and talk", but who wouldn't? There's going to be times when things must be done at an inconvenient time, which is why in my last post I mentioned employees doing things "on the fly". Although the time might have been considered inconvenient, the situation could have been handled in such a short amount of time by doing it the way I said in my last post, that the time of inconvenience would be considered negligible. Even if it happened to slow down, there's STILL customers to be taken care of. We don't BOTH have the time to go back to the office and have a meeting. Waiting until my shift ends wouldn't be a good idea for several reasons:

1. My shift might end when the manager is too busy to talk to me.

2. Since we've slowed down, the original runner is back and giving me the same grief they've been giving me. This type of hostility is unnecessary. I should be able to tell a manager right then about the problem, then they can tell the runner to stop right then. If I wait until the shift ends, the runner might have already left, which would mean that the manager can't tell the runner to stop, which would mean that I might end up complaining to another manager the next time I work with the runner. If I don't take care of the situation during my shift, this could continue on for a long period of time. EDIT: Oh, and this isn't Arby's, it's McDonald's. We'll both be busy ALL day long.

See, we're not talking about a full blown meeting here people. The manager is the one in charge and all she had to do was tell the runner to stop right then. But NOW, I do have a full blown meeting with GM, which really didn't need to happen in the first place had things been taken care of.

[dendawg]

Okay, I've tried to stay out of this, but let me make it simple for you, Terry:

Like it or not, you are the weakest link in the food chain that are McDonald's employees. To everyone else higher up, and I do mean everyone, you are expendable. Whether or not you are right or wrong is irrelevant, not in a matter of this magnitude. Sure you're right, but is it really going to matter, if everyone else disregards you for your attitude? That's right, I said it. If the needlessly confrontational attitude you are taking on this board is the one you are going to take to your GM, then you, my friend, are toast.

As I see it, you have four options as far as this situation:

1. Man Up and take your lumps.
2. Quit your job before you get fired.
3. Continue on the path you are on and get fired.
4. Find another job.

I know you probably are going to say I'm attacking you. Believe me, I'm not, and neither is anyone else here. Most of us have been where you are, myself included. It sucks, true, but that's the way it is, unfortunately. In the end, only you can decide what you can live with. Just don't be surprised if you end up jobless because of the stand you are taking. Is losing your job really worth it?