Are you trained to be rude and compassionless?

[jiarby]

i'd rather take 100 orders with no upselling than with 75 and upselling.

I'd suggest that it is YOU that does not get the basic economics...
If revenue from 75+upselling equals 100 without upselling then the 75 is more profitable then the 75+upselling takes less labor to produce, less food costs, and still with additional capacity to increase volume. Getting a customer is hard and expensive (that is why they invented advertising) so you can increase profits by selling MORE to the customer you already have.

THAT is basic economics.

It is good that you have 100 cusomers instead of 75... but if you sell 10% of them a 2 liter soda upsell then your profit will inrease.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I'd suggest that it is YOU that does not get the basic economics...
If revenue from 75+upselling equals 100 without upselling then the 75 is more profitable then the 75+upselling takes less labor to produce, less food costs, and still with additional capacity to increase volume. Getting a customer is hard and expensive (that is why they invented advertising) so you can increase profits by selling MORE to the customer you already have.

THAT is basic economics.

It is good that you have 100 cusomers instead of 75... but if you sell 10% of them a 2 liter soda upsell then your profit will inrease.

Of course, if you have your salespeople push too hard, then you're helping other stores get new customers without them having to go to the expense or trouble of having to run ads or promotions to reel them in.

I understand and expect upselling to take place. The problem I have with it comes in when managers treat conversion rates as the be-all end-all, and use bad rates to discipline and fire employees despite anything else they may do well at their jobs.

[KellyHabersham]

Of course, if you have your salespeople push too hard, then you're helping other stores get new customers without them having to go to the expense or trouble of having to run ads or promotions to reel them in.

I understand and expect upselling to take place. The problem I have with it comes in when managers treat conversion rates as the be-all end-all, and use bad rates to discipline and fire employees despite anything else they may do well at their jobs.

I have to agree on this, because I'm sure it's one of the reasons why I got laid off from Macy's - I did well at most everything on the job EXCEPT getting new credit card applications, and that seemed to be the one point corporate people looked at the most.

[bainsidhe]

Hold on a sec. I thought that by saying that the employees are trained to be rude to the customers (i.e. harass them about loyalty cards) it was placing the blame on corporate.

Now that you phrase it that way, I see your point. I just got defensive, because I take issue with the blanket statement calling associates rude, uncaring folk. I understand sales pitches are annoying, but it irks me that the Wall Street Journal prints the suggestion that a sales pitch means customer service has gone into the toilet. I take pride in my work and I make every effort to see customers are taken care of.

Sales pitches have a time and place. Unfortunately, companies are doing everything they can to salvage failing profits and sales pitches are considered a "duh" money grab. Hellmart really started pushing credit cards, because it was an easy profit maker. Offering no compensation other than the threat of lost hours/employment doesn't do much for fostering good will amongst staff, however.

[CrazedClerkthe2nd]

I'd suggest that it is YOU that does not get the basic economics...
If revenue from 75+upselling equals 100 without upselling then the 75 is more profitable then the 75+upselling takes less labor to produce, less food costs, and still with additional capacity to increase volume. Getting a customer is hard and expensive (that is why they invented advertising) so you can increase profits by selling MORE to the customer you already have.

THAT is basic economics.

It is good that you have 100 cusomers instead of 75... but if you sell 10% of them a 2 liter soda upsell then your profit will inrease.

There's a time factor here too.

Let's say with no upselling I can sell 20 games in an hour at an average profit of $4 each.

WITH upselling those same games take me 80 minutes to sell and of those 20 purchases, only 2 (our average percentage for upsells) actually get upsells on them totaling $6 more in profits.

I would argue selling 20 with no upsells at standard profit margins is a more financially effective approach.

But the rules do vary largely by business as profit margins are radically different depending on what you're selling.

Irv,

It would be fun to test your theory. Try and do the upsells really well, do everything else half assed and see if corporate gives a rat's ass.

[Mytical]

While not technically trained to be rude, I am trained (kinda) to be a jerk. Let me explain.

If somebody is on the property that shouldn't be, I am not supposed to ask nicely if they would leave. I am to tell them to leave NOW, and if they don't call the police. No second chances, no 'if, ands, or buts'. If somebody is causing trouble, even if it is the person who is the highest authority of the place, I am to not be gentle or polite when breaking it up..and escorting them from the premises. However, I KNOW that this is not typical training. Even Wally World, which is one of the WORST places I know for workers to absolutely ignore people, are not TRAINED to be rude.

[Racket_Man]

I'd suggest that it is YOU that does not get the basic economics...
If revenue from 75+upselling equals 100 without upselling then the 75 is more profitable then the 75+upselling takes less labor to produce, less food costs, and still with additional capacity to increase volume. Getting a customer is hard and expensive (that is why they invented advertising) so you can increase profits by selling MORE to the customer you already have.

THAT is basic economics.

It is good that you have 100 cusomers instead of 75... but if you sell 10% of them a 2 liter soda upsell then your profit will inrease.

but the one thing you are not taking into account as Irv has partially pointed out is this --->

the companies also REQUIRE x amount of transactions per hour, phone conversations to ONLY be X number of minutes (or you get demerit points) required scripts to be followed to the letter, empathy with the customer, using their name 2000 times in a 5 minute conversation, a happy peppy cheerleader attitude, a smile in your voice no matter what, certain targets that are required of you the peon (such as CC apps filled in, loyality card signups), etc all for being just a minimum wage slave. those at the top do not have to endure what we (the frustrated, abused and blistered) do. they only are idea people not action people.

all of this stuff takes TIME and frankly annoys the heck outta the customer. that upsell may increase the companies profits but in the long run comes out even because you could be passing through more customers but end up wasting time. which in the end DOES cost money. wasted time IS wasted money wasted time IS less profits.

[protege]

all of this stuff takes TIME and frankly annoys the heck outta the customer. that upsell may increase the companies profits but in the long run comes out even because you could be passing through more customers but end up wasting time. which in the end DOES cost money. wasted time IS wasted money wasted time IS less profits.

That's exactly how I see it too. I don't know about the rest of you, but if I'm going to have someone pester me to get their card/warranty/current promo item 52 times while I'm in the store, not only will I probably get annoyed...but I probably won't return to that store. I mean, do I *really* need a protection plan on a $5 computer mouse

[CrazedClerkthe2nd]

but the one thing you are not taking into account as Irv has partially pointed out is this --->

the companies also REQUIRE x amount of transactions per hour, phone conversations to ONLY be X number of minutes (or you get demerit points) required scripts to be followed to the letter, empathy with the customer, using their name 2000 times in a 5 minute conversation, a happy peppy cheerleader attitude, a smile in your voice no matter what, certain targets that are required of you the peon (such as CC apps filled in, loyality card signups), etc all for being just a minimum wage slave. those at the top do not have to endure what we (the frustrated, abused and blistered) do. they only are idea people not action people.

all of this stuff takes TIME and frankly annoys the heck outta the customer. that upsell may increase the companies profits but in the long run comes out even because you could be passing through more customers but end up wasting time. which in the end DOES cost money. wasted time IS wasted money wasted time IS less profits.

I need to print that out and mount it. Seriously. That's EXACTLY it right there. Well said.

[jedimaster91]

I pay for my loyalty card at Barnes and Nobel but only because I buy so many books it is well worth the cost. Plus, it can be used in their coffee shops for their yummy beverages and desserts.

That's part of the reason I prefer Borders. Their loyalty card is free. That and I tend to have a lot of trouble finding what I want at B&N. Their Star Wars section is woefully understocked most of the time.

Unfortunately, I don't have nearly as much money as I used to, so my trips to the bookstore when I actually buy something are few and far between.

[Midorikawa]

I'm so glad I'm not in that position to be forced to upsell everything and piss off customers any more. Yesterday I had to call Fells Wargo about a mortgage payment gone awry, and the rep wouldn't transfer me to the right department until he'd offered home insurance, checking, savings, and a few other services I told him I wasn't interested in.

...then he starts pushing the "building credit with us for when you need it later." bit. Granted, I got annoyed, but that's because their automated system forced me to navigate 8 levels of menus, then told me "An error occurred. Call back later." and hung up on me, only to get to the wrong department where I can't escape from without being endlessly upsold.

...and THIS is why I don't bank with them, or any other huge company, save for <military only insurance and banking co> This really needs to end, and companies need to get it through their thick skulls that I'm not some cash cow to be milked. Your jedi mind tricks won't work on me.

[Racket_Man]

I need to print that out and mount it. Seriously. That's EXACTLY it right there. Well said.

Thank You

I was just summing up what gets posted here on CS and a couple of other CS type boards (ie. Not ALways Right, RetailHell, Retail Sucks, etc.) ALL the time. what is surprising is I wrote all of that in like 5 minutes after a VERY long night of slogging through stupid stuff at work with very littel thought put into what I was pouinding out on the keyboard.

[Whiskey]

What does compassion have to do with retail? Seriously though, I WISH someone would complain about our script. We're told not to ask too many questions, but in the same breath, UPSELL! UPSELL! UPSELL!!

So ordering a #8 with fries and coke turns into

C: Can I get a #8 with fries and a coke
Me: Medium or large?
C: Small?
Me: would you like curly fries
C: No.. just regular fries
Me: Would you like a milkshake or a refreshing smoothie?
C: no.. a coke is fine..also can I get cheddar wedges?
Me: With sour cream???
C: No!
Me: Can I get you anything else? Perhaps <special of the day>??
C: NO!!!

I dont say all that because I'm grave and we don't get audited but thats how they want the "dont ask too many questions" ordering process to go.

Speaking of X transactions per minute. I have to do that script, repeat the order two more times, and make them feel welcome and special (seriously?). Then I have to implore them to come back. All in less than four minutes. I get yelled at if the customer orders at the window. Or if they want something at the last minute (a cup of water, always a cup of water). Or if they feel like eating half their sandwich in drive (seriously???). I'm punished for things I couldnt possibly have control over.

the survey customers respond to actually asks "Do you FEEL the employees hustled?" Our satisfaction scores promptly plummeted.

[Fire_on_High]

I mean, do I *really* need a protection plan on a $5 computer mouse

That's my thought...I might buy an extended protection plan on something I know has a relatively high failure rate coupled with a high cost, like a modern television or an off the shelf computer where I fully expect maintenance costs to go up sharply around the 3 year mark, but I've been asked on a $10 Mahjongg game before. My "protection plan" is called keeping a copy on the hard drive, thanks...

Or the time I got asked on a $7 crank flashlight...

[Racket_Man]

Mostly an old saying paritally my additon to it

"We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little for so long, that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. In short we are GOD".

the last sentence is meant in humor and humor only. do not read anymore than that into it. I used to put a framed copy of this up on my wall at every office job I had.