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Who was in the wrong on this one?

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  • Who was in the wrong on this one?

    This is something that happened where I worked a few years back. It was a small store, corporate owned. There 5 employees plus a manager. Since there was so few of us, we ended up becoming pretty good friends. One of the employees who we'll call L, had been with the company for over two years and was the second longest tenured employee at the store. She was also well liked and generally very good at her job.

    So at some point another co-worker of mine, P, decides it would be fun to get everyone from work (except the manager, who was a good 5-10 years older than the rest of us) together on a Saturday night and basically just hang out at his place for pizza and drinks and a general good time.

    Since we all worked together, inevitably we got talking about what we did and didn't like about the job and the customers and suppliers and whatnot we had to deal with daily. L was in particular very vocal about the manager, who had only been with us for four months. She basically said the manager was a complete tool and one of the most incompetent people she'd ever had the displeasure to work with (he was incompetent and most of us weren't particularly fond of him). Anyway we all had a good laugh making fun of him and that was that.

    Or so we thought.

    Somehow the manager found out about what L was saying about him (we never did find out who ratted, but we think it was a new guy we invited along who had only been with the store five weeks and was the only one of us who never worked with the previous manager) and got really pissed about it. He went whining to the DM about the incident and while I don't know the exact chain of events that followed, a couple of days after we hung out, L was fired for the comments she made.

    We were all pretty upset at this because she'd been one of the best performing employees and I think had only a single write up on her record for the two plus years she'd been with us. L herself was upset as well as angry and she felt she'd been unfairly punished and that the company had over-reached its authority in firing her over something that was said away from work and off the clock.

    To make things worse, I heard from L when she went in to pick up her last paycheck (yes it could have been mailed but she wanted to get it in person), the manager had conveniently managed to "misplace" it and she left empty handed. Eventually the company had to re-issue the check through the mail, but she went 4 weeks without pay and barely covered her bills that month.

    I told her she should fight the company on the termination, but she's since found a new job that she really likes and a manager she gets along with it hasn't been that high on her priority list.

    I still think of this situation frequently. Was the company right in what they did and should L have kept her feelings to herself? Or was the company out of line and should L fight back?
    Last edited by CrazedClerk; 01-21-2007, 03:18 PM.

  • #2
    Fight Back! No doubt here. It was not said in public, it was away from the building and off the clock. There is NO way she was acting as a company representative. As such, corporate had no authority to act on it and they (should) know that. They kinda like to avoid legal issues that might make the news. It's exactly the same as what we do here.

    Odds are, the manager lied to corporate in her complaint letter. I wouldn't put it past someone who "misplaced" a paycheck (I'd also inform corporate to see if the original was cashed, might be a case of theft there as well)
    I AM the evil bastard!
    A+ Certified IT Technician

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    • #3
      Sorry I am going to disagree here. She was entitled to her feelings. But airing them in front of coworkers (doesn't matter if they were off the clock) is never a wise move.

      I have learned that what you say can and will get you fired in a heartbeat. One of my co workers got walked out just last week for saying things she shouldn't have while out having cocktails with other co workers.

      Doesn't make it right, but in corporate or retail America, that's the way it is. Watch your mouth, you never know who is listening to you.

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      • #4
        Sounds like a definite case of wrongful termination to me. By not reporting this she's only giving the manager free liscense to dick someone else over.
        "Who loves not women, wine, and song remains a fool his whole life long" ~Martin Luther
        "Always send a lazy man to the angel of death" ~Martin Luther
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        • #5
          If she is not on company time, she is entitled to say what she pleases (imo)

          however I have learnt through experiance that many many many people will use anything they can to gain an advantage.... I may think my supervisor (not boss) is an incompetant fool, but I only say so online where I have some degree of anonmimity (I know I spelt that wrong)

          both sides made mistakes, but I think the company was out of bounds to fire her for comments made on her own time.
          I wasnt put on this earth to make you feel like a man ~ Mary Bertone

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          • #6
            Not sure that this would be wrongful termination. Isn't wrongful termination being fired for a discriminatory reason, like you're a minority or "too old"? I'm not at attorney or anything, but if this happened in an "at will" state, it would probably hold up.

            L could try to fight it if she feels inclined, but it would be kind of a "he said, she said" thing and probably wouldn't get her anywhere. At least things turned out good for her in the end and she has a job she likes now.

            I've learned the hard way that you really have to watch what you say about your coworkers, even when you're off the clock. You don't know who's listening, or if they're going to repeat it to somebody to curry favor. One time I was at the bar with some coworkers and I said some not-so-flattering things about another coworker, and somehow it got back to her. She didn't go to management about it, but we never got along after that.

            Both sides screwed up. L said some things she probably shouldn't have, and the manager over-reacted. I just don't see how fighting it is going to help any.
            Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

            "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

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            • #7
              I think it was wrong. I think she could fight it, but I think she is better leaving things as they are.

              She did say those things, even if it was off the clock.
              The genie is out of the bottle. Can't pretend it didn't happen.
              She won't get her old job back. Even if she did, there is anger and bitterness.
              She is happy where she is.

              Probably best to let it go and move on, and learn from the experience.

              This made me think of the link I was sent just after Christmas. http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=21063
              Too tired of living and too tired to end it. What a conundrum.

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              • #8
                I'm not sure if L should have been fired, but I'm not surprised that she was.

                It's easy to say that you can do whatever you want on your own time, but that doesn't mean that actions stop having consequenses. L got together with the rest of you at a party where only your manager was excluded, and during that party, there was a lot of making fun of the manager happening. L was one of the loudest at this. I don't think that ANYONE should be surprised that her comments got back to the manager. I adore my co-workers, but even I wouldn't trust them not to relay something I said, if it was negative, to the person I was talking about.

                And as a manager, I know that I wouldn't want to work with someone who was willing to say awful things about me behind my back, especially at a party to which everyone but me was invited. Double-especially if the person had let some of their vehemently negative feelings leak through while dealing with me in the past.

                So no, I don't think it's unreasonable that she was fired. Off the clock or on, I find that it's best not to say anything around anyone but your very, very closest, most trusted friends that you wouldn't mind the entire world hearing.

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                • #9
                  Sharing information at work can be and all too many times IS used against you. Same applies for drinks with co-workers. Same logic for blogs. If in doubt, commit the words to paper.

                  Sincerely,

                  Sadder but wiser drone

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                  • #10
                    What is right and fair has absolutely no bearing on the way the world works. Sure, she had a right to go out with whoever she wanted to invite, and she had a right to talk smack about her manager. It was tacky and poor politics to invite everyone but the manager. She had a right to do that, but she has NO right to get mad when the consequences of such a move bite her in the butt. To run her mouth in front of all her coworkers was sheer folly. Again, sure she had a right. But it was abysmally dumb to do so.

                    I have a right to walk down Main Street alone at 2am, too. But I wouldn't do it because of what would probably happen to me.

                    Your "rights" are on paper. Reality is what you live every day.

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                    • #11
                      I have to agree with some of the people on here.


                      While it was wrong for her to get fired, she did bring it upon herself.


                      When you talk trash about your boss, make sure you're talking to people you know and trust enough to not rat you out. Also a plus if they agree with you 100%. I'm sure there's some wise man quote about the situation.

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