Defense or prosecution?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Short sighting of stupidity, here. Not suckiness. Just abject stupidity. Not even sure it this is the right place to post.

Did jury duty this morning. Domestic assault. Guy in for beating his woman. Defense shows up with a witness...who was wearing jeans and a tshirt from a strip club.

I mean, ? Was he trying to help his buddy or see him buried?

I mean....I'm just flabbergasted.

[IT Grunt]

He'd have been better off just bringing in the noose... sheesh. How stupid can you get?

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Maybe those were his nicest clothes?

[Banrion]

What does a strip club have to do with your buddy beating his wife???

[ArenaBoy]

Would you trust a guy who's defending his buddy who beats his wife wearing a strip club shirt? Clothes are also a way as to how you're perceived. If I interviewed two people with the same qualifications who dressed differently I might for the person in the suit as it gives off a "I'm serious about what I do" aura while the other guy who's dressed like a drunk duck gives off a "Garble, garble, wha?" aura. It's a sad truth but a lot of people do it.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

What does a strip club have to do with your buddy beating his wife???

Nothing at all.

But if you are showing up to give the impression that your pal is a fine, upstanding man who would never harm a woman, maybe looking like you spent the previous evening stuffing dollars into a stippers' g-string is not the way to go about it. Some people might get the impression that a guy who did spend his evening that way doesn't respect women, or thinks women are objects, or whatever. Maybe they will be right in thinking that or maybe they won't, but the fact is that if a bunch of strangers are going to be deciding if you are a wife beater or not, you don't want to put into their heads that maybe you are a skeezy guy.

Same thing as a previous story I posted on here about a nimrod who showed up to get a passport photo done at Kinko's wearing a shirt with a pot leaf on it. I don't think pot smoking is evil. I don't think he's evil based on his shirt. However, alls I'm saying is I hope he enjoys cavity searches at foreign airports.

[Banrion]

And this is why I would NEVER allow a jury to decide ANYTHING that will affect my life. The clothing of the witness should have NOTHING to do with his testimony or credibility. For all anyone knows he has a messy job, and took time off work to come help his buddy out and he has to go right back. The jury system is inherently flawed, jurors are not educated on the law, they are just given the 2 sob stories and have to decide on emotion who they believe.

If I ever get in trouble, I am waiving a jury trial and requesting a bench trial.

[JustADude]

The clothing of the witness should have NOTHING to do with his testimony or credibility.

Uh, Banrion, hate to break it to you, but showing up in a T-shirt from a STRIP CLUB when you're a character witness in a SPOUSAL ABUSE trial does, indeed, have a legitimate weight in the credibility of his testimony. If guy can't even be bothered to stuff a button-down shirt, slacks, and dress shoes into a duffel bag to take with him and change in the bathroom, plus wears a shirt that has connotations of a derogatory attitude towards women, it calls into question exactly how high his standard of 'upstanding' is when he says the accused is an upstanding citizen.

There are certain expectations of formality in the judicial system. That's how things work, and that's how they've always worked. Judging someone negatively because they don't meet those standards is no more out of line than judging a job applicant on how they dress for an interview.

[Banrion]

Uh, Banrion, hate to break it to you, but showing up in a T-shirt from a STRIP CLUB when you're a character witness in a SPOUSAL ABUSE trial does, indeed, have a legitimate weight in the credibility of his testimony.

Please tell me how the two are related. I go to strip clubs. Does that mean that I beat my fiance? NO!! Does it mean I would go into court and lie to protect a wife beating scumbag? HELL NO! They are not related. I understand that most people will dress a little nicer for court, but that is not always possible. Lower level courts are often more informal than the higher courts as well.

As yet, NOTHING has been mentioned of this person's testimony and people are automatically labeling this guy a scumbag because of what he wore. It may be considered in poor taste, but this is not the guy on trial, and we don't know the circumstances surrounding his appearance in court. For all we know he got a subpoena 2 hours before he had to be there and he lives 3 hours away. Maybe his house burned down 3 days ago and those are the only clothes he has. There is no way to know what caused him to wear what he wore, and should not be a factor in determining credibility. Personal prejudice has no place in the justice system.

[myswtghst]

Banrion, I'm tempted to agree with others on the thread here. While attire is not a guaranteed reflection (I've got all kinds of crazy t-shirts) I look at this the same way I look at a job interview. It's one of those things in life where there is a dress code--I'm 99% sure we had a dress code, as jurors, when I served for a trial a year or two ago in Chicago.

In certain situations, I don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect people to dress to a certain standard. The same way that one should not wear a drug/stripclub shirt to work, one should not wear that when on trial. Unfair or not, it puts ideas into people's heads, and can easily be perceived the wrong way, whereas a nice pair of khakis and a button down would not.

[kibbles]

ITA, a simple T-Shirt should have no weight whatsoever in determining someone's credibility. And like it was said before, maybe he doesn't have any nicer clothes, or any other list of reasons that could be given. A jury is supposed to be impartial and unbiased, not a fashion panel for Next Top Model IMO.

[myswtghst]

A jury is supposed to be impartial and unbiased, not a fashion panel for Next Top Model IMO.

I completely agree, but thanks to my most recent experience with jury duty, I know that this is, unfortunately, not the way it works.

While those of us on these boards are generally the open-minded, try not to be judgemental sort, many in the real world aren't the same. I was the youngest person on my jury, and I was apparently the only one who understood the law and the instructions the judge gave us. I ended up in a near screaming match with a man older than my father because he couldn't understand why we didn't need to split up fault for a traffic accident if the prosecution couldn't prove that the accident was to blame for the injury. And that was only a small part of what went down.

In addition, just for background, I'm the type of person who, on her own time, wears all kinds of crazy stuff. On weekends, I'm a huge fan of bandannas on my head, crazy hair and eye makeup, plenty of jewelry, and my collection of children's t-shirts. When it's time to go to work, I tone it down, and wear work appropriate clothing. I do the same when I'm in a professional situation, and I consider court to be a professional situation.

I'm still in the boat thinking it is monumentally stupid to wear a strip-club shirt when testifying in court.

[kibbles]

ITA, I think it was immensely stupid of him to wear that..but also agree that that shouldn't have no bearing whatsoever. It must have been so frustrating for you when dealing with people on a jury who aren't of the open minded persuasion.

[blas]

IMO, the guy is digging his friend a grave by wearing such attire.

When you go to court, you dress up. Plain and simple. Common sense. If you want to be taken seriously, you show up fresh, clean, properly bathed, and in somewhat decent clothing.

[ArenaBoy]

Uh, Banrion, hate to break it to you, but showing up in a T-shirt from a STRIP CLUB when you're a character witness in a SPOUSAL ABUSE trial does, indeed, have a legitimate weight in the credibility of his testimony. If guy can't even be bothered to stuff a button-down shirt, slacks, and dress shoes into a duffel bag to take with him and change in the bathroom, plus wears a shirt that has connotations of a derogatory attitude towards women, it calls into question exactly how high his standard of 'upstanding' is when he says the accused is an upstanding citizen.

Please tell me how the two are related. I go to strip clubs. Does that mean that I beat my fiance? NO!! Does it mean I would go into court and lie to protect a wife beating scumbag? HELL NO! They are not related. I understand that most people will dress a little nicer for court, but that is not always possible. Lower level courts are often more informal than the higher courts as well.

As much as I hate to say it again; clothes do present attitudes to us. If I'm conducting an interview where the job requires a suit and tie and the guy I'm interviewing comes in dressed like a gang-banger then I'm not going to take him 100% seriously, I might take him 40% seriously. I'm not saying that clothes make a person, for all I know a guy in a suit and tie may look professional but in his private life he fantasizes he's Patrick Bateman. We don't know what this witness's private life is like but he isn't going to be taken seriously because of the shirt and the nature of the case. I know I wouldn't especially in that situation but outside of court it doesn't make a difference.

In certain situations, I don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect people to dress to a certain standard. The same way that one should not wear a drug/stripclub shirt to work, one should not wear that when on trial. Unfair or not, it puts ideas into people's heads, and can easily be perceived the wrong way, whereas a nice pair of khakis and a button down would not.

Correct. Even though a strip club and spouse abuse have nothing to do with each other it sure as hell will put some ideas in my head. Some things such as that won't help one's case. It sucks but a lot of people sadly think like that in all facets of life, there are times for such clothing but a court case involving spouse abuse isn't.