It Helps to be an Ex-Cop

[Broomjockey]

I've got to wonder though, this guy's an EX, not NON officer. Is it still illegal for him to act like that? He once had power, and still has knowledge derived from that office. Displaying the badge shows that he has the knowledge, and isn't some random guy shooting his mouth off, and he didn't say "Move or I'll write you up" just "Here's my proof I know what you're doing is wrong, do you still contest my knowledge." Any threat that guy felt was implicit, and his own choice to feel. Parker guy's a fuckwit. Ree's completely right, if the guy had simply moved when his "error" was pointed out, none of that would ever of happened. If the guy had any respect for fellow humans, this would be a non-issue, because we never would have heard of it.

I just wish more people would move past the "I only obey rules because I'm afraid of punishment" stage of morality.

[Rahmota]

Ree: I think this is a problem of Viewpoint. In my view the ex-cop was ten thousand times a bigger asshole, arrogant jerk and SOB than the guy who was merely parked in the wrong spot. Its not a felony to park in the wrong spot in most cases. It IS a felony to impersonate an officer.

IN this case what he did was act like a power tripping jerk. Yeah the guy should have chosen his parkign place better but does anyone know why he was parked there? Did the powerhungry dude ask why he was parked there? No he rolls up tells the dude to move and flashes his badge that he probably shouldnt have.

As for parking as long as traffic isnt blocked or a fire hydrant isnt blocked big deal. There are at least a half dozen places I can think of around my home that dont even have nice pretty painted lines telling you where to park and people just park in the easiest way to keep things moving. Maybe its just a rural attitude but parking is generally not somethign we get so bent about that we are going to be happy to have some jerkwad throw down his badge at us.

CrazyAl: Yes I know there is such a thing as a reserve officer. My understanding of them (based on around here your area may be different) is that their powers are even more restricted and limited than a regular officers. They cannot perform police actions unless they are in unifrom and within the scope of their assigned duties. ie they cannot go out looking for trouble as reserve officers are used as dispatchers, training, vehicle/prisoner transport, crowd control/traffic control during civic events,officework, and assisting in the jail. To do what the ex-cop did would be a fireable offense at the very least.

Broomjockey: Yes he may be retired but aroud here (ohio) when an officer retires he looses all police powers, rights, and priviledges. He becomes a regular average joe citizen like you or me. If he tries to act like a cop again then he is committing a crime. yes the knowledge may be there still. Yes he may still know the laws and the regulations and all. But his power to enforce them is limited to the same thing any other citizen can do. Flashing a badge is still verboten for them.

[Ree]

I think this is a problem of Viewpoint.

Well, of course it's a matter of viewpoint. We are looking at the same issue, but while you see the police officer as completely at fault, I see the guy in the car at fault.

I don't believe you will ever see the other side of this, even though I do understand your side.
You have chosen to fixate on a retired officer flashing a badge, and all the legal ramifications and moral issues involved with that, while I am more concerned with an inconsiderate jerk who parked where he wasn't supposed to and wouldn't move when it was pointed out to him.

Yeah...it's just a No Parking zone, but then it's just a short step to a handicapped space, or even blocking the entrance to the building, or even the safety exit if it serves the purpose and makes it handier for the guy running the errand.

I hadn't meant to post in this thread again, because I really don't want to continue or get into a debate, but when I read Broomjockey's reply, I laughed out loud, because he had just written almost the exact thing I had sent someone by PM only seconds before. (I had wanted to explain my point of view, and acknowledge that I really did understand where they were coming from, but, as I said, I didn't want to continue the discussion on the board.)

Even though I wanted to post and high five him for his comments, I resisted. Since you chose to address a comment to me, though, I felt I should answer to it.

Here, then, are some of the comments I made via PM.

In that thread, I really do understand the original point you were making.

I just thought it had all gone ridiculously out of proportion.
<snip>
I guess, having police officers in my family, it irks me when there is a generalization that they all abuse their power. (I know that's not what you said, but the comments by some made it seems as if that's a natural occurrence.)
<snip>
When I see 3 pages devoted to a discussion of the man flashing his badge, making him seem to be the one at fault, and very little mention of the fact that he wouldn't have needed to do it if the guy hadn't been parking in the wrong spot, it makes me shake my head.
<snip>
Well, in my experience, no parking areas are usually designated that for a reason, and it's often because, if someone parks there, it makes it very difficult for others to get around them.
I don't know how many times I've been in a car and had to sit and wait for the driver of a car parked illegally to come and move it so we could get past, or else, the driver of our car has had to do some pretty tight maneuvering to get past.

In my opinion, that was the greater offense than someone who studied the law and, at one time, was granted the right to carry a badge, choosing to make a point by flashing that badge at someone ignoring the law.

It would be different if the guy was trying to scam free food or services, but from the very limited details that we were given about the man, we don't know if he would do that or not. We don't even know if he makes a habit of flashing the badge.

I think it was wrong of everyone to jump to the conclusion that, just because the man did it in this case, he makes it a habit or even that he does it to get freebies.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify, and I didn't feel like continuing that in the thread.

I think Broomjockey made excellent points that underscore what I said:

...this guy's an EX, not NON officer.
...He once had power, and still has knowledge derived from that office. Displaying the badge shows that he has the knowledge, and isn't some random guy shooting his mouth off, and he didn't say "Move or I'll write you up" just "Here's my proof I know what you're doing is wrong, do you still contest my knowledge." Any threat that guy felt was implicit, and his own choice to feel...
...if the guy had simply moved when his "error" was pointed out, none of that would ever of happened. If the guy had any respect for fellow humans, this would be a non-issue, because we never would have heard of it.

Yeah, the former officer did step over the line, but he was preventing someone from behaving contrary to the laws.
It may have been a pretty minor thing, but it was still wrong.

[kibbles]

IMO the guy who parked illegally was absolutely wrong, but that was outweighed by a retired officer impersonating an active duty officer. JMO of course.

[Rahmota]

Ree: I do see the other side and of the situation and I dont see what the really big deal was with the guy who was parked badly. Yeah he wasnt in a proper parkign space. It wasn't somethign worth getting so bent about as it was not even worthy of notice much less acting like it was some sort of crime. The guy's poor parkign choice was out weighed by the, in Ohio, felonious crime of impersonating an officer.

I guess its a matter of scale. I saw the poor parking as the lesser of two evils. And while I do not have LEOs in my family I have worked with them and was in trainign to be one once upon a time. I do respect those officers who are good and decent and honorable and do their job without abusing their power. Those are teh kinds of officers I can respect. People like the arrogant jerk in the OP I canont respect as they are just abusing their power and basically grown up school yard bullies.

Ree said:

Yeah...it's just a No Parking zone, but then it's just a short step to a handicapped space, or even blocking the entrance to the building, or even the safety exit if it serves the purpose and makes it handier for the guy running the errand.

And like I said earlier its just astep up from harrassing some guy for parking improperly to trying to get special favors, harrassing other people or stepping on the wrong toes and getting his brains and anyone with him blown across the parking lot.

Lets go down a hypothetical different route if the guy in the no parkign zone had a warrent out or was high on drugs. he sees a badge and decides he's not going down for this BS and pulls a firearm. Now the situation has just gotten way more serious that it would have been if jerkboy ex-cop didnt want to take his powertrip.Someone is going to wind up seriously hurt or dead.

Ree also said:

of the man flashing his badge, making him seem to be the one at fault,

Well I think he was the one at fault and illegally escalated the situation by flashign a badge that he may or may not have even had a legal right to possess.

And as for any implicit threat the intent of flashing a badge is to threaten or otherwise intimidate someone else, and that is apparently what the ex-cop wanted to do. It is inherent in the way everone is taught from a young age. Someone has a badge they have power and authority over you and you must obey them or be punished.

And as for the parking lot it must be the difference in parkign areas as I have never in the 18 years of driving have had a problem with a person parked in a no parkign zone that kept me from getting into an area I wanted to be in or otherwise parking.

I see your point I just do not agree with it.

And as I had some time today I called my local Highway Patrol Post for some information.
In Ohio what the original poster's dad's friend did is a 4th degree felony. He was impersonating a police officer. Plain and simple a crime. A serious crime that is not somethign to be laughed at as if they catch a person doing that in Ohio they will throw the book at them. When a OSP officer retires they are to turn in their badge,their police authority is suspended and they become a regular citizen. They have no special powers or authorities beyond what I do or bob the janiter does. UNLESS such retired officers join the Highway Patrol Auxillary services. Wherepon they have limited police powers and authority. Which I listed earlier ie basically they could do traffic or civil defense style duties and not, repeat not, normal police patrol powers and authorities.

And that has only been since 9/11. Before that the OSP aux did not have any legal standing.

Looking on Google I find that there are afew states who allow retired officers to keep their badge and have limited ie reserve officer status automatically but they are still required to operate within certain restrictions on their powers and authorities. Powers and authorities that the jerkwater badgeflasher abused.

I'm sorry that you do not see the actions taken by the ex-cop as a more serious threat and want to absolve him of any responsibility for his actions. I am not saying the parked citizen was totally innocent but he was definately the one who did the least harm.

Perhaps this subject has come to the time to be closed as the sides are definately firmed up as to who agrees with whom and I see little chance for movement in either direction. I could go and quote the laws from the O.R.C. (Ohio Revised Code) that is relevant to support my commetns but that would be more appropriate at Fratching.

In closing. I feel and am supported by my home state's laws as well as moral and ethical useages of power that the ex-cop in the OP was wrong to do what he did and should be charged with intimidation, menacing or impersonating an officer. At the very least he acted like the bigger jerk in my opinion. Take it as you will. I mean no disrespect to those officers who do their duty responsibly and ethically. I have nothign but the deepest repect and admiration for those willing to travel the dark places of society for the greater good and are not tempted to abuse the power they control. I will always loathe and be disgusted by those few who tarnish the reputation and honor of LEOs by being corrupt or abusive.

[JustADude]

In the 18 years of driving have had a problem with a person parked in a no parking zone that kept me from getting into an area I wanted to be in or otherwise parking.

First off, you're assuming it was in a striped zone at the end of a parking row or similar. We don't know from the OP what the no-parking zone was there for. What if he'd been parked across an access alley or loading docks where he has the potential to cause major problems for the store, or worse yet, what if he was blocking a fire hydrant?

In another note, by your logic, I'd be a power-tripping jerk for whipping out my cell and waving it at him while saying "Move it or I'm calling the cops to get you towed," since I'm using leverage to intimidate someone into doing what I want... and that is exactly what I'd do if I ran into a jerk-wad parking in one of the above-mentioned zones. I'd also be every bit as likely to get threatened or shot by a druggie or a felon that doesn't want to get caught by the cops.

You've as much as admitted that he might have still had the right to have that badge, and for all either of us know he might have had a plate saying 'RETIRED' welded or riveted onto it quite prominently. My criminal justice teacher was a retired Sgt. and he had just such a badge, and he carried it around as a memento. Under the assumption the badge has been marked so, what he did does NOT essentially make him a jerk, power-hungry, an ass, or any of the other myriad insults you've flung at him. You're treating him as guilty until proven innocent.

[Crazeyal]

CrazyAl: <snip> To do what the ex-cop did would be a fireable offense at the very least.

Depends on the area, and the rules. BUT. If he WAS a Reserve officer, why in the WORLD would he not be able to flash his badge? Off duty or not, Reserve or Active, Police Officers are allowed to carry their badges with them. The people calling for his JAIL SENTENCING are out of line and should apologize.

Secondly, do any of you have contact with ACTUAL Police Officers? It's not universal, but good googly moogly, some of the things the HONEST ones get away with would have civilians in prison for YEARS! Getting a moron out of a handicapped spot? That is not EVEN small potatoes!

[Ree]

Secondly, do any of you have contact with ACTUAL Police Officers? It's not universal, but good googly moogly, some of the things the HONEST ones get away with would have civilians in prison for YEARS!

I believe I mentioned I have police officers in my family, and I really resent anyone implying they would be corrupt in anyway, or overstep their bounds, or do anything that would send them to jail if they were not in law enforcement.

I don't know the man in the OP, but I guess I prefer to actually get to know someone before I automatically assume they are arrogant jerks who go around abusing their power, based on one story on an internet board.

Anyway, poor Princess-Snake posted what she thought was a cute story of how her friend's father handled a jerkoff parked contrary to the signs, and it has turned into this polarized debate about abuse of power by the police.

I feel bad for her, because I'm sure this was not the result she expected.

[Princess-Snake]

No, it certainly was not. That's why I don't visit this thread much because it's turned into a debate over who was the bigger asshat and whether or not the ex-cop should be arrested or not. My friend's dad is a really nice guy. When I asked her if her dad ever did something like that before, she said no. Why he was carrying the badge in the first place, I don't know. Maybe for sentimental value. But, he is certainly not an arrogant, power-crazy jerk. Okay, I'm done ranting now.

[protege]

I believe I mentioned I have police officers in my family, and I really resent anyone implying they would be corrupt in anyway, or overstep their bounds, or do anything that would send them to jail if they were not in law enforcement.

To add to what Ree said...

Most cops are good people. They do not abuse their power. However, like many professions, you occasionally have assholes who get the job simply *because* of the power that it entails. In other words, it *allows* them to push people around. These are the ones that truly suck. They will rough you up over minor offenses, and are sometimes "on the take." It does suck that the things they do make the good ones look bad.

Locally, most of the departments are OK. If you don't do anything illegal, or anything to draw their interest, they'll leave you alone. The exception is the Brentwood police department--they have a well-deserved reputation of being corrupt; anyone local remember Johnny Gammage?

*For those who don't know, Gammage was a black man who died in their custody. His crime? Driving Ray Seals' (his cousin, and a Steeler) Jaguar in the suburbs. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gammage. What's disturbing about that incident, is that the officers basically got away with it...and one was even promoted!

Anyway, what happened later, was suddenly *every* officer in the county was suddently under the microscope...many of whom were being unfairly targeted. It's unfortunate that a few bad apples had to spoil the entire bunch.

...and on that note, I'm closing the thread.