Doesn't seem ethical, but is it even legal?

[JLRodgers]

One of my friend's relative's wife managed to get a job. Her employer just happens to be a minister as well as a business owner. Apparently the minister/employer demands that all his employees belong to his church - if you don't, you get fired or just not hired. If you quit going to the church, bye-bye job.

Now the job itself is min.wage. And the church has another requirement "you will tithe or you will be kicked out" -- and "you will tithe X amount of your income". Which leads that since he knows how much his employees make.... he knows how much they should give.



I kind of see this as the employer going for a "loophole" to be able to pay his employees less than min. wage given the requirements for working with him. I was just wondering what other's thoughts were....

[TheComputerError]

Let me preface this by saying that I am not a lawyer.

If this business is run within the United States and has 15 or more employees on payroll, this is illegal. The EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII) both state that religion is a federally protected status upon which no employment discrimination can be rendered.

As to the tithing thing, I'm not going to venture in that area as I'm not interested in starting something here that belongs in Fratching.

[Evil Queen]

I'm not a lawyer either, but I'd stay the hell away from both church and business! Sheesh!

[It's me]

This sounds thorougly illegal........

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

Does that minister know that Greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins?

[JLRodgers]

If this business is run within the United States and has 15 or more employees on payroll, this is illegal.....

I'm not sure how many it's got... probably not 15 though although I might be wrong... Thanks for the other info though too

[prb]

Are you in the US?

If yes, I don't know, but I assume that it would be similar to what we have in Ontario:

Employment
5. (1) Every person has a right to equal treatment with respect to employment without discrimination because of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, age, record of offences, marital status, family status or disability. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.19, s. 5 (1); 1999, c. 6, s. 28 (5); 2001, c. 32, s. 27 (1); 2005, c. 5, s. 32 (5).
Employment
23. (1) The right under section 5 to equal treatment with respect to employment is infringed where an invitation to apply for employment or an advertisement in connection with employment is published or displayed that directly or indirectly classifies or indicates qualifications by a prohibited ground of discrimination. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.19, s. 23 (1).
Application for employment
(2) The right under section 5 to equal treatment with respect to employment is infringed where a form of application for employment is used or a written or oral inquiry is made of an applicant that directly or indirectly classifies or indicates qualifications by a prohibited ground of discrimination. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.19, s. 23 (2).
Questions at interview
(3) Nothing in subsection (2) precludes the asking of questions at a personal employment interview concerning a prohibited ground of discrimination where discrimination on such ground is permitted under this Act. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.19, s. 23 (3).
Employment agencies
(4) The right under section 5 to equal treatment with respect to employment is infringed where an employment agency discriminates against a person because of a prohibited ground of discrimination in receiving, classifying, disposing of or otherwise acting upon applications for its services or in referring an applicant or applicants to an employer or agent of an employer. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.19, s. 23 (4).
Special employment
24. (1) The right under section 5 to equal treatment with respect to employment is not infringed where,
(a) a religious, philanthropic, educational, fraternal or social institution or organization that is primarily engaged in serving the interests of persons identified by their race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, creed, sex, age, marital status or disability employs only, or gives preference in employment to, persons similarly identified if the qualification is a reasonable and bona fide qualification because of the nature of the employment;
(b) the discrimination in employment is for reasons of age, sex, record of offences or marital status if the age, sex, record of offences or marital status of the applicant is a reasonable and bona fide qualification because of the nature of the employment;
(c) an individual person refuses to employ another for reasons of any prohibited ground of discrimination in section 5, where the primary duty of the employment is attending to the medical or personal needs of the person or of an ill child or an aged, infirm or ill spouse or other relative of the person;
(d) an employer grants or withholds employment or advancement in employment to a person who is the spouse, child or parent of the employer or an employee;
(e) a judge or master is required to retire or cease to continue in office on reaching a specified age under the Courts of Justice Act;
(f) a case management master is required to retire on reaching a specified age under the Courts of Justice Act;
(g) the term of reappointment of a case management master expires on the case management master reaching a specified age under the Courts of Justice Act; or
(h) a justice of the peace is required to retire on reaching a specified age under the Justices of the Peace Act. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.19, s. 24 (1); 1999, c. 6, s. 28 (11); 2001, c. 32, s. 27 (5); 2005, c. 5, s. 32 (14); 2005, c. 29, s. 1 (2).
Reasonable accommodation
(2) No tribunal or court shall find that a qualification under clause (1) (b) is reasonable and bona fide unless it is satisfied that the circumstances of the person cannot be accommodated without undue hardship on the person responsible for accommodating those circumstances considering the cost, outside sources of funding, if any, and health and safety requirements, if any. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.19, s. 24 (2); 1994, c. 27, s. 65 (4); 2002, c. 18, Sched. C, s. 4 (1); 2006, c. 30, s. 3 (1).

Essentially, it's illegal unless the church is hiring her.

[smileyeagle1021]

PRB, the United States is very similar, except in some states it is legal to discriminate based on citizenship, and in some states (sit down for this) it is legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation. I believe Utah is one of the states that allows discrimination based on orientation... so theoretically my boss could come in one day and say "we have evidence that you are gay, we do not approve of that, your services are no longer required" (assuming utah is still one of the states where orientation isn't a protected status).

[Akasa]

I'd so take that story to the media. I can see them being all over that story like white on rice.

[Eben56]

Sue his ass

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits workplace discrimination based on religion, national origin, race, color, or sex.

In the US he is ABSOLUTELY wrong and is liable to prosecution. DO NOT LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT.

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for the good to do nothing" Many employers get away with this kind of thing because people just go along. Maybe they quit and tell their friends but in reality do nothing to stop it.

If the OP's story is accurate, it will not be hard to find a lawyer that would latch onto this like a pitbull.

Publicity is a great thing.. Sue him and make sure everyone knows.

[Eben56]

Just to add: The tithing thing is called extortion and is a criminal act. File charges.

[JLRodgers]

Just as a comment: I wish they would press charges! Sadly in my town chances are they'd lose.... it'd be a family's word against a well liked minister's.

As it is, they're afraid to do anything as it took her forever to land that job (I think it took a few years).

[Aethian]

Have her go to the minister and tell him that they can't afford to tithe x-amount because the 4-walls come first.

[JLRodgers]

Have her go to the minister and tell him that they can't afford to tithe x-amount because the 4-walls come first.

They made a similar comment once.... the reply was "you're not welcome here if you can't" and her hours were cut (by, amazingly, a bit more than the tithe amount in pay).

edit: he did say the reason was "business was slow" not the other -- but it seemed suspecious even to them, and when they gave more money the hours (and business) magically increased.

[Aethian]

Well then it's time to keep the feelers out there and putting resumes out everywhere. That job will destroy someone's view of that church...been there done that, looonnnngggg story.

Try to get a lawyer outside of the community...might be the only way to get the IRS sniffing at this guys books.