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Credit card and family issues, all rolled into one!

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  • Credit card and family issues, all rolled into one!

    Backstory:

    When I was in high school, my parents got me a "young adult" Visa card with a $500 limit. It had my and my dad's name on it, so that in case I wouldn't (or couldn't) pay the bill, they could bill my dad instead. Basically it's a card with both our names on it and the bill has both our names on it as well. I haven't used it in years; I got my own card several years ago. I kept the young adult card around for a few online subscriptions I had on it, but eventually I even canceled those and I haven't used it in a couple of years now. The kicker is, I can't do anything to close or change the account. Since my dad is considered the "adult" on the card, only he can make changes, like increasing the credit limit or closing the account. He knows that I never use the card (and he doesn't either) and I've told him he could just close it, but he never bothered doing so. The bill for this card still goes to his address, and I can check the balance and pay it online, although I rarely do since I never use the card. I assumed he was...you know...opening the bill every month since it was coming to his address, even though nothing is (or should have been) on it.

    /backstory

    About a month ago, my parents started getting nasty phone calls from what we assumed was a fraud company. As it turns out, it's apparently some sleezy collections agency trying to collect a $105 balance on the young adult card my dad and I have. My mom told me I must have accidentally used that card instead of my normal card at some point in the last few months and now it's accumulating interest and late fees. I checked the balance online, and sure enough, there were two charges on it, for about $40 total, in September and October. However, they were not charges that I had made. They were from a company that runs an MMORPG that I used to have a subscription to years ago, but haven't payed for or played in over a year and half at least.

    I called the MMO company and asked about the charges. They are now doing an investigation to see if the charges are fraudulent or a mistake by their billing department. Either way, they said they would refund me the $40 after their investigation is complete, which could take a couple of weeks.

    In the meantime, I called the credit card company to explain what happened and find out about canceling the card. The woman I talked to was a COW. She had a very unprofessional greeting -- "Card Member Services", no offer to help or even her name -- and when I gave her the card number, she went on rant about how the account is not in her system and it must be delinquent and she doesn't handle delinquent accounts and I need to talk to someone else. She was very rude and short the whole time. Then she said she would transfer me to the correct department, and instead she transferred me back to the beginning of the automated system that I had just spent 5 minutes wading through to get to her.

    Thankfully, the next agent I got was able to help me (without transferring me to this supposed other department -- imagine that) but unfortunately, my dad still needs to handle closing the account since he's still technically the "adult" on the card.

    I called my dad and told him all of this.

    Dad: So, is the company that charged you initially going to refund us?
    Me: Yeah, eventually, after they do their investigation.
    Dad: For how much?
    Me: About $40 or so.
    Dad: What about all the interest and late fees?
    Me: I don't think they're going to refund us for that.
    Dad: So, for $40 we're getting charged for $105! This is ridiculous! Isn't there anything else you can do about this!?

    Excuse me? Isn't there anything else I can do about this? Maybe if you had actually opened the bill, which comes to your address and with your name on it, or even better, canceled the card when I told you I wasn't using it anymore, we wouldn't be in this mess, you ASS.

    I am so pissed, both at the CSR I had to deal with, and with my father.

  • #2
    Quoth MaggieTheCat View Post
    Maybe if you had actually opened the bill, which comes to your address and with your name on it
    <Hesitates>

    Well . . . I can kind of understand a person not bothering to open a monthly bill on a card that, as far as he knows, has no balance on it and nobody is using. I can see it, just a little.

    It's definitely not a wise idea, because, as we see here, mistakes do occasionally happen, and there's always a chance that somebody might get a hold of your card number and make fraudulent charges to your account.

    I certainly agree that it's not fair for your father to act like you should be doing something to take care of the matter, since he's the person who is technically in charge of the account.


    Quoth MaggieTheCat View Post
    Dad: What about all the interest and late fees?
    Me: I don't think they're going to refund us for that.
    I wonder . . . If the interest and and late fees all accumulated from a balance that was itself invalid . . .

    I honestly don't know if this would hold up legally, but . . . I can actually see a person making an argument that not only the initial charges, but also the interest on it, should be refunded. There wouldn't have been any interest if the invalid charges had not happened in the first place, after all.

    Removing the late fees would be a little harder to justify, since they stemmed at least partly from the fact that the cardholder neglected to check the monthly statements that had been sent. But it's possible.

    I wish you luck, Maggie. I very much hope that Visa and the MMO company will be willing to work with you on this.
    “Excuse me. Is this bracelet real jade?”
    “Ma’am, this is a thrift shop. The tag on the bracelet says $1.50. It comes with a matching mood ring. What do you think?”
    “I don’t know.”
    “Yes, it’s real.”

    Comment


    • #3
      I appreciate the frustration, what a mess! Please encourage your father to dispute the charges NOW. As in yesterday! Some cards (I think it varies by state?) have a time window of when you can dispute invalid/fraudulent charges. Don't wait to hear back from the other company to find out if it's a billing error. Treat it like ID theft. Contact the card company and file a report immediately. If you need to file a police report, do it! And get them to stop the card.

      It sounds like you were an authorized user, but not really a cardholder. If that's the case, your credit may not be getting trashed, but your Dad's credit will be. Collectors are never good for the 'ol credit score. Whatever happens, the card company will need to follow-through with credit reporting agencies to make sure things are corrected/removed from your credit reports.

      Good luck!
      A lion however, will only devour your corpse, whereas an SC is not sated until they have destroyed your soul. (Quote per infinitemonkies)

      Comment


      • #4
        Quoth MaggieTheCat View Post
        Dad: So, for $40 we're getting charged for $105! This is ridiculous! Isn't there anything else you can do about this!?
        Gotta agree with the MMORPG on this one. Nothing THEY did was responsible for the interest and penalty charges. The interest and penalty charges are due to you and your dad's failing to check the card balance. It's not 100% his fault because while he is technically in charge of the account, it's really your card and you have a means of checking the balance and paying it off, you're really just as responsible for checking the balance on a monthly basis as he is.
        Last edited by trunks2k; 01-08-2010, 03:20 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I have to disagree, Trunks. If the MMORPG hadn't made the charges to the card in the first place, the interest etc wouldn't have happened.

          Granted, it's a card that the two people involved are responsible for, but if you've not used the card in a year you would think you're fairly safe in not expecting any charged to be made against it. It shouldn't be up to people to correct a company's mistakes.

          Put it this way, if you were near your limit and safe after working out exactly what was coming out and coming into your account, and then something like this happened and pushed you over your limit, and you ended up with overage charges etc, that would be the MMORPG's fault. Correct?

          Rapscallion

          Comment


          • #6
            Quoth Rapscallion View Post
            Put it this way, if you were near your limit and safe after working out exactly what was coming out and coming into your account, and then something like this happened and pushed you over your limit, and you ended up with overage charges etc, that would be the MMORPG's fault. Correct?

            Rapscallion
            Sorta (see below), but that's different. It's directly caused by the MMORPG. In the case you present, you are using your card responsibly. You knew where the limit was, and you stopped at the limit. The charge itself directly caused the overage. In the case in the OP, the charge itself didn't cause additional fees - failing to look at the bill did. It's ultimately your responsibility to check your bills, even on accounts you don't use - at the very LEAST to check for fraud, especially since you have a time limit to report fraud to the CC company.

            Several months of you failing to check your balance to be sure that nothing strange happened to your card is not the MMORPG's fault. It'd be nice if they did refund it all, but I don't think they have the responsibility to. If anything, the CC company should reverse the interest and penalties if the charge is removed from the card. Even in your example, I'd expect the credit card company to reverse the over the limit fees once the offending charge has been reversed.
            Last edited by trunks2k; 01-08-2010, 04:27 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Why should the CC company have to refund money? They provided a service in good faith. They paid interest on the loaning system they have to fund the credit they afford to others. They had a certain processing cost associated with the transaction as they do with every transaction (a minor amount, granted).

              Granted, keeping an eye on the account would have been good, but that charge should not have been made in the first place. The MMORPG company is to blame in my view. How many others have they done this to without them realising it? How many have noticed and demanded money back?

              Rapscallion

              Comment


              • #8
                Quoth Rapscallion View Post
                Why should the CC company have to refund money? They provided a service in good faith. They paid interest on the loaning system they have to fund the credit they afford to others. They had a certain processing cost associated with the transaction as they do with every transaction (a minor amount, granted).
                Because technically the charge was never valid in the first place. It should be that if the charge wasn't valid in the first place, then it was like the charge never existed, so all penalties resulting from the charge are dismissed. The CC company should deal with the monetary transaction between itself & you and itself & the vendor as two separate issues. All the charges you had are wiped out by the CC company, while the CC company should get the original charge back from the vendor plus a certain fee/penalty for it's processing costs. Ideally you come out even, and the CC company come out as specified in its contract with the vendor, and the vendor is out a small amount for causing the problem in the first place.

                The vendor is responsible for the problems it directly caused - whatever they may be. But if a problem was caused by YOU not being responsible (in this case the failure to check the bill), that's not the fault of the vendor.
                Last edited by trunks2k; 01-08-2010, 04:57 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Quoth trunks2k View Post
                  The vendor is responsible for the problems it directly caused - whatever they may be. But if a problem was caused by YOU not being responsible (in this case the failure to check the bill), that's not the fault of the vendor.
                  The vendor did directly cause this problem. They put a non-valid charge on a dead account. If they'd never levied the charge, then there'd not have been any interest charges or late fees. By refunding the charge, they admit it wasn't valid. In both this real case and Raps' example, the charges are spurred by the company being in the wrong, and the CC company just acting on good faith.

                  Maggie's dad certainly should have closed the card ages ago, but that doesn't make any of what the MMO did even close to legit

                  Quoth trunks2k View Post
                  Gotta agree with the MMORPG on this one. Nothing THEY did was responsible for the interest and penalty charges.
                  Again, except for charge someone who'd already cancelled.
                  Ba'al: I'm a god. Gods are all-knowing.

                  http://unrelatedcaptions.com/45147

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Please keep in mind that what the vendor "claims" they're going to do versus what they actually will do are two separate things. Whether or not they credit the $40 will depend on the results of their investigation. Right now they're trying to validate the charges so they can determine if it's a billing error, a fraudulent charge on the account, or if the OP should be stuck with the bill. The OP isn't the first customer to complain about inaccurate charges and I'd wager most similar claims come from scammers and abusers of the system. Sadly, scammers make things harder on the rest of us.

                    Personally, I'd call the card company and tell them about the potential fraud. It's not clear who placed the charges and it's possible the number is floating around somewhere. Better to err on the side of caution.
                    A lion however, will only devour your corpse, whereas an SC is not sated until they have destroyed your soul. (Quote per infinitemonkies)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The vendor is responsible for contacting the bank and arranging to have the charges and any associated fees purged, waived, or otherwise paid, provided they are contacted in a timely manner.

                      Unfortunately, you cannot hold them to repayment for fees on charges that are well outside the usual window of "one billing cycle" although they will often do so.

                      Regardless, no matter whos name is on what, if you have anything that can affect your records or credit in your name, keep an eye on it, even if "nobody is using it" and it "shouldn't have any activity." The best way to deal with this sort of thing is to catch it before it gets this ugly.

                      This is purely curiosity, and I won't mind if you prefer not to say, but what MMO is it?

                      ^-.-^
                      Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Quoth Andara Bledin View Post
                        This is purely curiosity, and I won't mind if you prefer not to say, but what MMO is it?
                        Final Fantasy XI.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Call the bank and ask for a chargeback. Mention it was a recurring billing that was cancelled in _ month of _ year and that the company started rebilling in _ month of _ year without authorization. They'll investigate, refund the charge/interest/fees and you'll be fine.
                          Otaku

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            you told your dad to cancel it and he chose not to, then he also chose to not read the bill each month, I'd put a good chunk of the blame on him.
                            Interviewer: What is your greatest weakness?
                            Me: I expect competence from my coworkers.

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