It's a freaking WRITING CLASS!

[mikoyan29]

Trades? And do lowly PHYSICAL labor? You're KIDDING, right?

...all sarcasm aside, I didn't know what trade schools really were until I was in college. I mean, I'd heard of them, but I was given the strong impression that they were schools for people who were too dumb for regular school so they could get jobs doing physical stuff where they didn't have to think too hard. And that a smart girl with grades like mine shouldn't worry her little head about places like THAT, I was going on to better and brighter places than people like THEM.

Please don't hurt me. That is actually what I was told in early high school and I didn't know any better. I've since learned the truth.

I think I've said it before, the trades are perfectly fine for some people. A good plumber can make more than many college grads. Same goes for a good electrician or mechanic. And while some my look down on those people, they don't mind using their services. Not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer or engineer. I just wish there wasn't the stigma associated with the trades.

I went to a four year college, mainly because I wanted to get away. I wouldn't trade it for the 2 year cc and 2 year 4 year college experience but I do know alot of people that went to a community college first and they were better off for it.

but the even better debate is large college vs. small college...

Lots of people get told stuff like that. And you end up with all sorts of people who would make great technicians or mechanics in engineering because they're good with their hands and fixing stuff, but because they're good at academics they go to university. And they're miserable. A cousin went and did a technolgists diploma instead of getting an engineering degree (despite getting accepted) because he realised that he'd never get to do hands-on stuff with a degree. I admire him SO much for that.

Depending on what you do, Engineering can be hands on. In fact, in many cases it might be better for us if it were hands on. I know too many engineers who don't know how to swing a wrench designing stuff that looks nice on paper but doesn't work so well when it comes to taking that design from paper to actuality. I remember reading an article lamenting about the fact that many engineers designing cars these days don't know too much about fixing them and therefore do things that sound good but when they get in the shop they are a pain in the ass. I realize alot of that has more to do with trying to squeeze more and more under the hood using less space because of weight considerations but....

Anyways, what you said boils down to doing what you feel is right for you.....

[Exaspera]

So while I was waiting for the class to open, one of the apes (The same ass that got upset that I gave him wrong answers) was going off how he wished she was still like that in her youth so that all he would have to do is give her a hard F*** to get an A. Some snicker. I made no remarks, just doing my damnest to remember what I could with a lousy memory. They started talking about some sort of sex tape that may or may not be out that she appretnyl made for her ex. (Some were trying to find it to no aval).

If those idiot students had spent the same energy doing their homework as trying to find info about their teacher, maybe they would have decent grades!

[Ironclad Alibi]

A cousin went and did a technolgists diploma instead of getting an engineering degree (despite getting accepted) because he realised that he'd never get to do hands-on stuff with a degree. I admire him SO much for that.

Good for him. In high school, I was good in math and science, and not so good in English. So I got a degree in engineering. And for the last 40 years I've been in jobs where I spend most my time and effort writing. It's technical writing, but writing none-the-less. I would have enjoyed my jobs more had there been some hands-on stuff. Fortunately, my hobbies take care of that for me.

[42_42_42]

In the Advanced Comp class I took in college we each wrote well over a thousand pages during the course of a semester. It was a LOT of work, but it was worth it. That class was the class in which I really learned the structure of writing.

Plaidman, if you need any help outside of class, I'd be happy to proofread your papers for you.

[AccountingDrone]

Depending on what you do, Engineering can be hands on. In fact, in many cases it might be better for us if it were hands on. I know too many engineers who don't know how to swing a wrench designing stuff that looks nice on paper but doesn't work so well when it comes to taking that design from paper to actuality. I remember reading an article lamenting about the fact that many engineers designing cars these days don't know too much about fixing them and therefore do things that sound good but when they get in the shop they are a pain in the ass. I realize alot of that has more to do with trying to squeeze more and more under the hood using less space because of weight considerations but....

Anyways, what you said boils down to doing what you feel is right for you.....

I started my working life in a machine shop, and ended up running 29 of them for the company I was working for. Believe me, if I was designing engineering programs, the summer internships would be out working on factory floors, in warehouses, on assembly lines ... real world jobs as I have been heard to refer to them as.

My perfect example is bleach totes - also known as milk crates. Simple little design product. A designer could whip it off in his sleep and from my opinion *did*. No ergonomics whatsoever.

They are designed to hold 4 gallons of milk. Think about it. A gallon of milk weighs 8.3 lbs. 4 of them is 33.2 lbs. Now think about it, that is about what a small kid weighs. Look at the crate. Look at the thin wall of plastic, with that cute little oval cutout to stick your hands into to lug it around. Think about nice big man fingers, in work gloves. Look, he can only get 2 fingers in, unless he takes off the gloves - in which case he is lugging around 33 lbs with his bare finger tips, with the thin wall of plastic cutting into them. Do we even want to get into the 6 and 8 case sizes?
I think you get the idea.

The US is so full of pwecious snowflakes that absolutely *have* to have office/white collar jobs ... I will probably be well into fratching territory, but we really need to change to the old style system where in middle school you test. Some kids go into a university oriented high school, and others need to go into a trade oriented school. We are cramming kids who are mechanically adept but not scholastically adept into the mold of going to university and office work when they are more suited to a trade. We also need to do something to keep our manufacturing from being moved offshore if we want to actually keep people employed.

[AriRashkae]

My perfect example is bleach totes - also known as milk crates. Simple little design product. A designer could whip it off in his sleep and from my opinion *did*. No ergonomics whatsoever.

They are designed to hold 4 gallons of milk. Think about it. A gallon of milk weighs 8.3 lbs. 4 of them is 33.2 lbs. Now think about it, that is about what a small kid weighs. Look at the crate. Look at the thin wall of plastic, with that cute little oval cutout to stick your hands into to lug it around. Think about nice big man fingers, in work gloves. Look, he can only get 2 fingers in, unless he takes off the gloves - in which case he is lugging around 33 lbs with his bare finger tips, with the thin wall of plastic cutting into them. Do we even want to get into the 6 and 8 case sizes?
I think you get the idea.

Damn, but I hate loaded milk crates! I spent my tween and teen years dumping truck loads of returned milk for our pigs. It was easier to just hook my fingers through the jugs and carry 2 in a hand.

Of course, the whole "weight of a gallon" thing was funny as hell when I had the C-section and the doc defined heavy lifting as "over 5 lbs".

[Midorikawa]

I would have enjoyed my jobs more had there been some hands-on stuff. Fortunately, my hobbies take care of that for me.

That statement makes me glad I didn't pursue engineering like I was planning on.

The US is so full of pwecious snowflakes that absolutely *have* to have office/white collar jobs ... I will probably be well into fratching territory, but we really need to change to the old style system where in middle school you test. Some kids go into a university oriented high school, and others need to go into a trade oriented school. We are cramming kids who are mechanically adept but not scholastically adept into the mold of going to university and office work when they are more suited to a trade. We also need to do something to keep our manufacturing from being moved offshore if we want to actually keep people employed.

Hear hear. It took $10k and 1 year at Texas Tech University before I realized that I suck at school. Yes, I read up on physics, electrical engineering, and various other points of interest for me, that doesn't mean I could do those as a profession. I interviewed with a company recently for a systems admin job, that when they told me I'd have no hands on time with the servers, I decided I didn't want the job. I love working with my hands, and not having that ability is a dealbreaker. Yes, it means I'm 'doomed to low pay and a job with little recognition', but I'm happy here. Leave me alone. :-P

My point being, that I really wish I'd have realized I'd fail out of college miserably before I spent $10,000 on school. Maybe I'd have done better at a community college, but I'm still doing fine for myself without college entirely.

[Amina516]

A gallon of milk weighs 8 POUNDS?! Holy crap! thats a lotta milk. lol.

[Chromatix]

In Britain, it's still sold in pints or multiples thereof, the larger sizes having built-in proper handles, and over here it's a litre or 1.5 litres. The latter is still less than a gallon.

[AccountingDrone]

That statement makes me glad I didn't pursue engineering like I was planning on.



Hear hear. It took $10k and 1 year at Texas Tech University before I realized that I suck at school. Yes, I read up on physics, electrical engineering, and various other points of interest for me, that doesn't mean I could do those as a profession. I interviewed with a company recently for a systems admin job, that when they told me I'd have no hands on time with the servers, I decided I didn't want the job. I love working with my hands, and not having that ability is a dealbreaker. Yes, it means I'm 'doomed to low pay and a job with little recognition', but I'm happy here. Leave me alone. :-P

My point being, that I really wish I'd have realized I'd fail out of college miserably before I spent $10,000 on school. Maybe I'd have done better at a community college, but I'm still doing fine for myself without college entirely.

At least you didn't do 4 years and 40K ... and as long as you can afford shelter, food and some entertainment, who cares how much or little you make as long as you are comfortable and reasonably happy

A gallon of milk weighs 8 POUNDS?! Holy crap! thats a lotta milk. lol.

Pint is a pound, all the world around =) food can be deceptively heavy.

In Britain, it's still sold in pints or multiples thereof, the larger sizes having built-in proper handles, and over here it's a litre or 1.5 litres. The latter is still less than a gallon.

That is mainly because we have humongous refrigerators in the US and tend to shop once a week, unless you are an urban apartment dweller in which case you probably have a smaller fridge and shop more frequently =) Although I do have a friend with 6 kids, they go through a gallon of milk a day.

[Chromatix]

Well, if you want more milk, you can always pick up more 1.5L packets. They stay fresh slightly longer when unopened, too.

Of course, I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum, where I buy 1L at a time and it usually lasts more than a week.

[greek_jester]

That is mainly because we have humongous refrigerators in the US and tend to shop once a week, unless you are an urban apartment dweller in which case you probably have a smaller fridge and shop more frequently =)

Actually, many working people tend to shop once a week in Britain too. It's just that kitchens here (unless you're very well off or don't need a lot of kitchen storage) aren't big enough for American-style fridges, so gallon jugs of milk simply wouldn't fit. As such we buy multiples of the 1.5 litre bottles (or in my case the 1 litre bottles, as I tend to spill a lot when the 1.5 litres are full - too unwieldy for my little hands).

[mikoyan29]

I started my working life in a machine shop, and ended up running 29 of them for the company I was working for. Believe me, if I was designing engineering programs, the summer internships would be out working on factory floors, in warehouses, on assembly lines ... real world jobs as I have been heard to refer to them as.

I believe in Japan you do just that. Before you start in the engineering department, you do some time on the line, in purchasing and a couple other places in the company before you start designing stuff. Tends to make you a little more concious of design for manufacturability issues.

And one of the smartest engineers I met was a toolmaker. And I don't think he had a degree.

[42_42_42]

At least you didn't do 4 years and 40K ....

Try 4 years and $150k...one English degree later and I realize I should've gone to culinary school.

[RetailWorkhorse]

My perfect example is bleach totes - also known as milk crates. Simple little design product. A designer could whip it off in his sleep and from my opinion *did*. No ergonomics whatsoever.

They ain't made like they used ta' be, either. I have 5 of them (and love them to DEATH) and they're pretty old. Not like any of these flimsy new pieces of crap.

I like hands-on work. I'm a carpenter by training (since I was old enough to hold a hammer), and I was taught plumbing. I can build a house from the basement to the roof but there is something I can't do. I can't run electrical. That was EQ's job. Of course, if you give me a rough picture and idea and plenty of wire I can probably run it okay (I need to be told where it's going and how much, though). I don't mind getting dirty (I REALLY like it, in fact!).

Now if only I could get someone to hire me.