The bad tipper and the crass waiter

[thehuckster]

Two stories, which I'm putting into one thread because they are somewhat related, if only by mention. We'll start with "Betty" the horrible tipper.

In an office I worked at, I learned about Betty, one of the colleague's wives. She's from somewhere in Scandanavia and as I learned from him, their restaurant etiquette in that part of the world differs from the American etiquette...

Colleague: I've had fights with her in the past over how to tip wait staff here. She's insistent on them never asking her about her meal, or doing any sort of small talk during the visit. "We are conducting business," she says, "and as such I don't want any colloquial talk about anything other than what I'm ordering."

Me: So, wait... if she gets a meal and finds it's lacking something or she wants pepper or something...

Colleague: Where she's from, it's customary for the customer to actually call attention to the wait staff and ask for whatever is lacking.

Me: Okay... but, that's where she's from. She's here now. I mean, if I went over there and asked them to do things the American way, I'd be equally wrong as she is right now.

Colleague: I get it, and I've tried to tell her this, too. And that's just at fancy restaurants. At diners, forget about it. If they call her "honey" or anything else like they tend to do there, she gets very offended.

Me: Huh... so I take it you argue over the tip?

Colleague: You have no idea. Here's what is really upsetting to me: If anything like that happens, where someone asks her about her meal, or they call her honey, talk about the weather outside... anything like that, she'll leave no tip.

Me: Well, on the bright side, if she continues doing that, she'll definitely get what she wants. I'm sure nobody will call her "sweetiepie" or ask her about her meal after that...

I was mortified at this. I mean, I understand coming from different cultures and getting a culture shock when you come to another country, but geez, if the country you're visiting or moving to has different customs, you've got to be open to that and not get offended if people do things a little different there!

The Crass Waiter

Several years ago I broke up with my girlfriend. I felt liberated afterwards, but the whole process of doing it was mentally exhausting. Afterwards, I met up with my friend who took me to TGIF for drinks. My friend at the time was doing a very strict diet and didn't drink at all. Here's what happened when our waiter came to us.

Waiter: Hi, guys. [gives us specials] So what would you like to drink?

Me: I'm going to go for your best margarita. I need a drink.

Waiter: Ah fair enough, fair enough... and how about you?

Friend: I'll just have a water.

Waiter: ...are you fucking kidding me?!

Friend: Heh, yeah, I know...

Waiter: Your friend here orders a drink, and you're just going to have a fucking water?!

Friend: Yep.

Waiter: Pfft, whatever, man.

*waiter walks away*

Friend: *laughing so hard* Man, Betty would absolutely hate this man.

Me:

We both weren't at all offended, but we were absolutely shocked at this guy's behavior. I mean, he was nice, but just really crass. I guess he somehow got that we were not easily offended, otherwise if he had a bad judge of character, I could see how this could get him in trouble real fast.

[Jay 2K Winger]

That's just... whaaat?

That waiter was totally in the wrong blurting out something like that. Don't judge, man. For all he knew, your friend was the designated driver or something.

[morgana]

Yeah, I have to agree. If I'd gotten that waiter, I'd have been talking to the manager.

[Moosenogger]

I hate touchy-feely people, so I'm sure if I went to a restaurant in another country where the culture thrived on physical contact, I'd be really uncomfortable. However, I'd still tip them well, since it's not really their fault that they're simply being overly-friendly.

It's the same with over-talkative waitstaff here, too. If the waiter takes it upon themselves to stand at my table and have a long-drawn out discussion, I'm probably not going to be too appreciative. I'll still tip them, though.

[Merriweather]

IMO, that lady in your story defines the most common (and worst) SC. It isn't that what they want is so very unreasonable, it's that they expect everyone around them to know what they want without ever being told. They want something that in that situation is not the "norm" or most common thing to want, and somehow think that others should sense this, and treat them differently than they would everyone else.

If someone tells me "this is what is the most common condiment here" then I would know that if I want a different condiment, I would have to tell someone that. Same goes for behaviour/customs/etc. I believe that in truth, anyone with any reasonable level of intelligence also understands that (with the exception of those in tinfoil hats who believe everyone is already using ESP to steal their private thoughts and inventions ).

That's why I consider those who act like everyone should know just what they want without having to tell anyone the worst SCs - they aren't mistaken, confused or clueless, they know people can't read their minds, and they choose to act like they should anyway. Which, IMO, is just wanting an excuse to be a mean nasty person to someone.

Tell me you want your condiments on your burger in a specific order? Annoying, picky, but not necessarily an SC. Tell me you'd like mustard instead of ketchup with your fries? Weird maybe (unless you explain everyone in your country eats them that way), but still not an SC. Act like you expected me to know you want the condiments on your burger in a specific order, but didn't bother to tell me? That's an SC, cause they created the situation just so they could bitch about it. That's just wanting to be mean to someone.

In the case of your coworkers wife, I suspect she doesn't like being away from her country, and is taking it out on everyone she comes across by being mean to them simply because they aren't behaving as people do in her country.

I've lived in a country other than my own, I know I made plenty of mistakes at first, not knowing which things were the same and which were different. But I learned what was the norm there, and expected things to be different. Some differences I liked, some I didn't, and yes, I occasionally politely asked for something a bit different than the norm (sorry, never could take vinegar on my chips ). But I never expected people to read my mind about anything.

[MoonCat]

I think "Betty" just doesn't like certain customers and is irritated that she's expected to follow them, so she makes a point of finding something to complain about. That gives her an excuse to not follow the customs. Kind of, "Where I come from, we do it a better way!"

[RealUnimportant]

She could certainly handle it better, such as explaining that she'd rather not engage in any discussion beyond ordering, but it's hard to turn your sensibilities through 180 degrees after many years of social conditioning.

Remember the "not following customs" thing goes both ways, and a forum such as this based in her home country would probably hold many similar stories from the opposite point of view.

As for the waiter, that was terribly unprofessional no matter what the local custom!

[42_42_42]

Something tells me she's never heard of "When in Rome...."

[Hanzoku]

I live in Europe, and when my girlfriend and I visited the US for BlizzCon, she was surprised and annoyed by tipping. I ended up handling it entirely, but she didn't really get or like that the price was 10-20% higher then stated because the server also needed a tip. At least in the Netherlands, the restaurant staff is payed a normal salary, no tipping needed or expected.

[bhskittykatt]

The woman needs to adapt.

As for the waiter...I think I get the tone he was saying it in, since you weren't offended. Still, that's a big gamble on his part. That's the kind of banter you only give to regulars who you know can take it! (Even then, f-bombs can be overheard by other customers!) Say that kind of stuff to the wrong customer, and you may be saying goodbye to your job...

[NorthernZel]

As a Scandinavian, I might explain (not excusing nor defending) why "Betty" might have an issue with tipping and/or US waitstaff behaviour in general.

First of all, as Hanzoku already has explained, we normally don't calculate with tips since the bills normally states that tips are included, and most waitstaffs get a decent pay. If the food is top-notch and the staff is friendly, one might tip by rounding up the bill, but never by a certain percentage.

Second, I get the sense that Scandinavians like to have a bit more "personal space" than others. When we go out to eat, we just want to be fed. If there's a problem, or we want to order some more, we will notice the staff about it, but otherwise we just want to eat in peace and let the staff tend to the other patrons. Getting interrupted mid-course by someone asking if all is satisfactory will seem as intrusive - off course all is satisfactory, if it wasn't we'd tell you!

Having said that, I also think that "Betty" needs to adapt and "do as the Romans". Whenever I travel to another country, I usually make some research about what culture re: tipping and customer service that country has. I must admit that I still feel a bit quirky when/if I visit a restaurant where the staff is "in your face", but I suck it up.

[thehuckster]

As for the waiter...I think I get the tone he was saying it in, since you weren't offended. Still, that's a big gamble on his part. That's the kind of banter you only give to regulars who you know can take it! (Even then, f-bombs can be overheard by other customers!) Say that kind of stuff to the wrong customer, and you may be saying goodbye to your job...

Yeah, I think you understand the tone as well. He had a big smile on his face, and I think he gathered that since we were young (and I think the two of us sort of give off a "laid-back casual buddy" aura) we could handle his nature. You're right about the customers overhearing him, though, as well as taking a gamble. I do wonder whatever happened to him, as we didn't go back (not because of bad service or anything, we just usually go somewhere else), and I wonder if he eventually was too "casual" to the wrong customer.

Having said that, I also think that "Betty" needs to adapt and "do as the Romans". Whenever I travel to another country, I usually make some research about what culture re: tipping and customer service that country has. I must admit that I still feel a bit quirky when/if I visit a restaurant where the staff is "in your face", but I suck it up.

The thing I got from what Betty's husband (who is from America) was saying, she didn't understand the concept that, being in another country, she should conform or accept the local customs. It's one thing if you're put off by another country's customs because you're not used to it. I totally get that. If I went to some hypothetical country where the custom was to serve bat dropping as a palette cleanser between each course, I'd feel a culture shock, but wouldn't be offended by it. I'd think, "Oh, they serve complimentary bat droppings in X. Well, I'm not going to eat it, but they did a good job serving it and considering it's bat droppings, they dressed it up for good presentation. I think I'll give them a nice tip for their thoughtful gesture."

It's the fact that the husband explained to her that around here we're expected to tip for good service and that entails checking up on their patrons from time to time and being extra friendly, and yet she still didn't get it because she didn't agree with the custom that really got me.

[Merriweather]

It's the fact that the husband explained to her that around here we're expected to tip for good service and that entails checking up on their patrons from time to time and being extra friendly, and yet she still didn't get it because she didn't agree with the custom that really got me.

Yep, that's pretty much the ultimate EW - expecting a place to adhere to the customs you want, rather than what the entire population of that country, minus you, want.

[ralerin]

If I went to some hypothetical country where the custom was to serve bat dropping as a palette cleanser between each course, I'd feel a culture shock, but wouldn't be offended by it. I'd think, "Oh, they serve complimentary bat droppings in X. Well, I'm not going to eat it, but they did a good job serving it and considering it's bat droppings, they dressed it up for good presentation. I think I'll give them a nice tip for their thoughtful gesture."

In some countries, not eating a delicacy given to you could be highly offensive (maybe the droppings came from a rare species of bat that eats berries at a certain time of the year and makes the droppings full of flavor or essential vitamins or something). So I would make the effort to at least eat a small portion of the bat droppings and then discreetly tuck the rest under my napkin.

Also, in Japan it is offensive to tip your waitstaff and probably across other parts of Asia as well. This is why it's important to read up or ask your waiter or other friendly local for help.