Are you going to pay the legal fees?

[mosspack1]

I did not put this under Management because it is not my manager so I hope this is the more appropriate place.

Although I do not remember the exact wording of a sign on an employee message board at a nursing home in NC, it basically stated that employees with four wheel drive vehicles were expected to show up for their shift regardless of weather conditions. Oh and you are also expected to pick up co-workers that do not have four wheel drives. So are you going to pay the legal fees when co-worker A slides off the icy road and co-worker B bumps their knee and sees $$ signs? In this sue happy society I can see it happening.

I am pretty sure refusal to do so is not a legitamate reason to fire an employee but I imagine management will find some way to penalize the person. Especially if NC is an "at-will" state. (I do not live there so I have no idea)

[PepperElf]

That's a valid question really.

Expecting workers to come in to work is one thing. REQUIRING them to be a taxi for other drivers however... that's entering in the realm of "on the clock" in my opinion.

Plus, if the driver gets into an accident, is the company going to compensate for damages or injuries? Or will they say, "Well suck to be you!" After all, the company DID require them to go drive in the weather and pick others up.


This could indeed land into some interesting discussions with the labor board in my opinion.

[Crossbow]

IANAL, but it strikes me that you could be getting into trouble with livery regulations at that point. Personally, I'd still tell them to shove it. You don't get to determine when the conditions are too bad to drive. And there's no way in hell you can tell me who rides in my vehicle. Ever.

[Indigo]

Interesting - especially since in some parts of NC, we get ice instead of snow and I don't think 4WD helps as much as some people think it will in those conditions.

I had a manager tell me that I should be fine to come in one very icy morning since I had a 4WD Jeep. I offered to send her a picture from my front porch showing the two trucks and three SUVs that were spread across the ditches in front of my house, my neighbor's house, and the field across the road. She decided that she could do without me that morning.

And yes, NC is an "Employment-at-Will" state unfortunately. Personally I'd ask my employer if they were planning on paying me for any extra mileage accrued by using my personal vehicle as their taxi service.

[PepperElf]

indeed the vehicle itself doesn't always determine if you can make it in.

I know some people with SUVs, 4WDs, and pseudo-off-road vehicles who probably can't get as far as I can on ice. Why? Because they've less experience driving on ice. Or, more importantly, how to STOP on ice.

You could have the best car or truck in the world but if you don't know how to handle the conditions, you may be in for a bit of a surprise.

And yes, NC is an "Employment-at-Will" state unfortunately.

However that being said, if you can prove they fired you for not being a taxi that could have leverage. A photo of the sign wouldn't hurt for those workers I guess.

Although that's the rub... proving one was fired for not giving out free rides, when the company says "we don't want you here, that's all" or something generic.

[Merriweather]

When I worked as a computer programmer, we had a bad blizzard one year (in an area that rarely even got snow, so almost no road clearing equipment). Police were announcing on the radio that they expected people to stay off the road unless is was an emergency or they were "crucial personel". Obviously, meaning doctors, fireman, etc.

Our company decided programmers should come in as usual or face the consequences. However, secretarial staff were told not to come in. Some made it in, some didn't, and they finally told those of us who were there to go home, once the police began saying they might ticket anyone out without a good reason. They did back down on disciplining anyone who didn't make it in, but all programmers (who were salary, BTW) had to make up any hours not worked that day on the following weekend, while secretarial staff were to put "site closed" on their timesheets and got full pay.

That wasn't the only instance of shafting and shadiness, that company screwed over anyone they possibly could.

[Raveni]

Sounds great, as long as the company is paying for taxi time, vehicle wear/tear, covers your car (and self) on their insurance policy...

[bainsidhe]

While it's entirely possible this was a douche employer/manager that posted the sign, it's also possible it was meant as a deterrent against the chronic complainers that will whine and cry if a few flakes fall on their car. Any excuse to get out of working, really. And if it's a holiday or weekend, all the better.

Sorry to sound bitter, but having worked fast food & retail and getting screwed with call-outs has made me suspicious of people claiming they're "snowed-in". Telling them someone will give them a ride will change the story to "snowed-in out of town" or some other emergency.

[MoonCat]

I don't drive but if I did, and had an SUV, icy conditions like that would mysteriously make my car not start.

On one particularly icy day years ago I had to call out. We'd had freezing rain overnight and there was no way to even walk down the driveway, let alone to the corner bus stop, because every freakin' surface high and low was too slick. Gotta get me some of those ice gripper thingies you can wear on your boots.

[mharbourgirl]

Sorry to sound bitter, but having worked fast food & retail and getting screwed with call-outs has made me suspicious of people claiming they're "snowed-in".

As much as I agree with you, sometimes the claim IS legit. At least it is when I'm forced to call in for snow. See, where I work (and now live) is very often a few degrees warmer than where I used to live with my inlaws. The area around Halifax Harbour can have dramatically different results from the same storm, e.g. A light snow around the harbour will become half a meter of snow less than 50kms NE up the shore at the parents'. I've legitimately been snowed in any number of times while my workplace might not even see a flake. And yes, I've sent pictures in a few times to prove it or face penalties. I understand the skepticism, but weather is often bizarre and contrary and I am NOT driving nearly 50kms on a snow and ice-covered highway just to get to work.

[MadMike]

Back when our tyrannical ex-manager was still in charge, one of my coworkers tried to call off because it was snowing heavily, and he felt that the roads were too bad to drive in. The manager told him to come in anyway. On the way there, coworker hit a patch of ice, and slammed into the curb hard enough to blow out his tire.

Naturally, when coworker finally made it in, he was not happy, and let the manager know this in no uncertain terms. He sarcastically asked if the compay was going to buy him a new tire, and the manager just said he'd "look into it." Which we all know means he wasn't going to do a damn thing.

[Sapphire Silk]

it basically stated that employees with four wheel drive vehicles were expected to show up for their shift regardless of weather conditions. Oh and you are also expected to pick up co-workers that do not have four wheel drives.

I am pretty sure refusal to do so is not a legitamate reason to fire an employee but I imagine management will find some way to penalize the person. Especially if NC is an "at-will" state. (I do not live there so I have no idea)

It all depends on how hard ass the employer is. In North Carolina, management by intimidation in health care is pretty much the norm.

I've worked with employers who've used this threat any number of times. Usually, they'll say if you can't drive in they'll send someone to pick you up. But it's up to the employee to decide whether or not to actually get into the car. I've never heard of anyone actually getting fired.

I have had employers who'll let employees sack out in empty patient rooms between shifts to encourage them to stay and work. Call outs in bad weather are common, and the remaining staff (especially the licensed staff) cannot leave until they are relieved by the oncoming shift.

I've been snowed in before, several times. Working 16+ hours because you have no relief is not easy; you're pretty much done after 12 hours.

[Seshat]

As well as basic driving instruction, my parents' company did advanced driving instruction, including 4WDing.

Actually using a 4WD as an 'extreme conditions' vehicle is NOT, repeat NOT the same thing as ordinary driving. So much so that for certain types of outback driving (eg, running pipelines), the companies that do the work had a pretty much standing appointment with our driving school to keep their drivers' certifications up to date.
I don't know whether this was a government requirement, an insurance liability thing (many insurance companies would reduce premiums if you had a suitable certificate), or the companies had found it more efficient. Or all three, for all I know!

I've nearly skidded out on mere rain-slick road - and that a properly surfaced road at that. 4WD or not, there's no way I'd risk my life driving in dangerous conditions just for an employer.

However, if I were an essential employee (and I do mean emergency services of some sort, or otherwise 'the city breaks down without me'); I'd probably do an extreme-driving course and have a kitted out 4WD. And yes, I'd offer to pick up other essential employees.
But it would be of my OWN choice, not the company's. And it would be because I wouldn't want my co-workers doing 16+ hour shifts. Not out of loyalty to the employer, but for the patients and co-workers.
And actually, being me, I probably wouldn't 'cause my reflexes aren't up to extreme-conditions driving. So add another proviso: if my reflexes were up to it. Heh. yeah, I'm loading this down with conditionals.....
Oh: and I'd get whatever compensation I could for the extreme-driving course, either from my employer or the govt as a tax break. And my insurance company would hear about it too. May as well try for lower premiums!

[Sapphire Silk]

What she said.

There's 4WD and then there's 4WD. "All Wheel Drive" is NOT the same thing as 4WD.

4WD basically works best on wet, muddy, or dirt roads. It can help in snow IF, and only if there is not a lot of ice. 4WD is useless on ice; it has to be able to grab the road to do its job. In fact 4WD is actually more dangerous than rear wheel drive on ice.

As a health care worker, it truly does suck when someone calls out due to the driving conditions, because it means you're stuck until you get some relief. But I would never ask anyone to endanger their safety just so I can do the same thing to go home.

And while there are some people who abuse bad weather as an excuse not to come to work, most really don't. The weather at the hospital might be fine . . . and blackout conditions at the worker's home.

I had a student call me once to tell me she wasn't coming to clinic because the ice (we get a lot of ice storms here in North Carolina) was so bad where she was. I told her to do the safe thing and stay home, and didn't dock her for absence. We ended up leaving the hospital early anyway, because the college canceled classes for the day (if classes are canceled for any reason, we have to leave the hospital).

[wolfie]

Although I do not remember the exact wording of a sign on an employee message board at a nursing home in NC, it basically stated that employees with four wheel drive vehicles were expected to show up for their shift regardless of weather conditions. Oh and you are also expected to pick up co-workers that do not have four wheel drives.

If they're making it a condition of employment for some workers to provide taxi service for others (from your description of the sign, sounds like it), it raises various legal issues.

- Carrying passengers for hire (if it's a job requirement, it's considered "for hire", even if you don't get paid for it) requires a different class of driver's license (in Ontario, in a bus with fewer than 24 seats - or an ordinary car - not for school purposes, it requires an "F" license instead of the usual "G"). If you don't have that class of license, you're facing serious consequences (and so is the employer, for requiring an unqualified person do carry passengers for hire).

- The vehicle needs to be licensed and insured for "use on the job" (as opposed to commuting) and carrying passengers for hire.

- Presumably the time clock is at work. This means that you can't clock in until AFTER performing part of your duties, and have to clock out BEFORE doing another part of your duties. Can anyone say "working off the clock"?

I'd be inclined to tell my manager "The transfer case is broken - I can still drive it in 2WD, but it doesn't work in 4WD, and for what I use it for, I don't need 4WD, so I didn't bother getting it fixed".