More Carma!

[Magpie]

Yet another case of a police patrol being in the right place at the right time.

In Ontario it is legal to make right turn on red. This occasionally causes problems when oncoming traffic has a protected left turn. Someone was trying to turn right (4-lane street, two each way) while someone else tried to turn left. I'm not sure whether or not it's legal to do this. I'm fairly sure that's not, but generally trying to turn left while someone is trying to turn right is "it's technically legal, but don't do it".

The person turning left took exception to this, and honked, so the person making the right turn stopped. I can't say exactly what happened, all I know is that the car which was turning left then proceeded to straddle both lanes, and there was a lot of honking. (It didn't look as if the car was going that slowly, and there is a red light about 150-200m away, so they couldn't do much anyhow). The honking, however, was enough to get the attention of a police car which had apparently been waiting at the red light. One U-turn later there was at least one unhappy driver. Unfortunately I can't tell you which one, and there was only one police car.

[Whiskey]

IANAL (or very smart) but protected left had the right of way.

[Magpie]

IANAL (or very smart) but protected left had the right of way.

They had the right of way, but given that technically the car is turning into the left lane, and the truck was turning into the right, I believe that the truck isn't precisely barred from turning, but that if there is any accident (such as from the car deliberately swinging wide because they're ticked about the truck turning right) it is the fault of the truck making the right turn.

[Bandit]

Actually, in Ontario, if the person turning left to a multi-lane road swings to the *right* lane, they are at fault as the law says basically "Turn into the closest lane".

Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the left into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the right of the centre line of the highway and he or she shall make the left turn by entering the intersection to the right of the centre line or its extension and by leaving the intersection in the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by passing immediately to the right of the centre line of the intersecting highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (6).

and

Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the right into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the right-hand lane or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway and he or she shall make the right turn by entering the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (2).

Sorry about the legaleze - I was looking something else up.

B

[Magpie]

Oh, I know that you're supposed to turn into the left-most (right-most) lane. I also know that they never enforce that. I was taught in Driver's Ed that if the lane is blocked, you're supposed to turn into the next lane, rather than turn and immediately change lanes. But they never went in to "this is what the law says" vs "this is what is the safest thing to do, and you won't get arrested for it". I was thinking more what legal rulings had been made. (If both cars swing just a little bit wide, then the car turning right would have been at fault).

It is legal to drive right beside another car in Ontario, right? One of those "if you want to be a complete idiot the law can't stop you" things.

[Captain Trips]

Seems to me that whoever has the green light has the right-of-way, and it then goes next to the right-turn-on-red driver.

BUT
The right of way isn't automatically yours -- the law is that the other drivers have to YIELD the right-of-way per the terms given in the laws, but if they don't then it isn't yours to take from them. If they get caught, it's considered a violation on their part -- but you don't have it until they yield it to you.

At least, that's how it is in California, where no one seems to know this aspect anyway -- no one yields it, everyone takes it whether it's theirs or not!

[joe hx]

Captain Trips, that's how it is in Ohio too. As my grandpa says, you can have the right-of-way and be awfully dead.

[Difdi]

Most places, it's illegal to change lanes in an intersection. If it was a four lane road (two each way) the two people were trying to turn onto, then there shouldn't be a conflict, since the guy turning right ends up in the outer lane, and the guy turning left ends up in the inner lane.

There'd only be a conflict if one (or both) illegally changed lanes in the intersection.

[Geek King]

Most places, it's illegal to change lanes in an intersection. If it was a four lane road (two each way) the two people were trying to turn onto, then there shouldn't be a conflict, since the guy turning right ends up in the outer lane, and the guy turning left ends up in the inner lane.

There'd only be a conflict if one (or both) illegally changed lanes in the intersection.

I was always taught to observe safe practices. Just don't share the turn and you don't have the issue if the other driver doesn't turn into the closest lane. Waiting a second or two won't hurt anything.

[Department stores *sigh*]

I actually saw the exact same thing happen the other day. Now if your turning you always have to turn into the lane closes to you if im not mistaken. So they should both be able to turn no problem (if there is two lanes of course)

[Sleepwalker]

It may be legal to turn on red, but you still have to yield to traffic with the right of way.