Meanwhile, back at the barn.

[paxillated]

The Saddlebred trainer I worked for called the color in the first picture "chocolate palomino." (One of the stallions had it.)

I have been "corrected" about this, and told that the color is liver chestnut. But why the champagne color in the mane and tail? And why the darkening from dark palomino on his front feet to so-called liver?

Most of all, why do the other liver chestnuts I've seen have a redder color than his, and liver manes and tails, and liver all down their legs?

Oh, well, I guess I know less than some folks. Maybe.

[AkaiKitsune]

The Saddlebred trainer I worked for called the color in the first picture "chocolate palomino." (One of the stallions had it.)

I have been "corrected" about this, and told that the color is liver chestnut. But why the champagne color in the mane and tail? And why the darkening from dark palomino on his front feet to so-called liver?

See it can't be palomino because the breed doesn't have the genes. Most 'palomino' Arabs are either a result of crossbreeding or are actually (genetically) a sort of golden chestnut which can range from a true gold colour to really pale. The palomino stud book still allows for Arab registry though. But there's no Creme gene to make a true palomino.

Most of all, why do the other liver chestnuts I've seen have a redder color than his, and liver manes and tails, and liver all down their legs?

Oh, well, I guess I know less than some folks. Maybe.

I know the chestnut colour is a reply of the red gene in horses. And that there's a gene that's black and responsibile for saying where and how the back appears (ie limited to the points of the horse to make bay)

Where A represents 'red' and B represents 'black modification' (as opposed to a fully black horse). Capitals represent dominant and lowercase is recessive. Each foal gets two markers one from each parent, for every aspect of colour.

AABB, AABb, AaBb :would all be different shades of 'bay' horses.
BB, Bb+certain allele at separate locus :would be non-fading 'black' horse.
bb :liver
bb+certain allele at separate locus :non-fading liver.
Various 'brown' shades are also derived from the two interactions of these genes.

'Flaxen' chesnuts have their own thingy too.

On a Palomino horse you'd have the same idea. Except instead of the black being the modifier on the 'red' colour. You would have a Cr (cream gene) acting on the 'red' colour, diluting it to being a 'yellow' instead of say a brown or a reddish brown colour.

Because Liver chesnuts are a result of black and red interacting you would get horses with a sort of redness to their coat. there's a bit of range for what's considered 'liver chesnut' too. I've seen ones that quite clearly have a lot of red (particularly noticeable in the mane/ tail like this guy here https://goo.gl/images/n2Rf6x) and then ones that look almost black in colour (https://goo.gl/images/f5pRdk)
To the more standard colourization (https://goo.gl/images/4xwzuR) all of which are considered 'liver chesnut'

The flaxen mane/tail is caused by the oh so creatively named 'flaxen gene' and causes mane/tail to be considerable lighter then the body colour. It is also recessive. Some breeds like the halflinger and the palomino have this as a breed trait. On other breeds it might just crop up randomly according to some obscure mash of genetics. Some breeds it's really rare (like Arabs) to see and others (notably the Rocky Mountain Horse) it's more the rule then the exception.
With a lot of breeds like the palomino for instance, since it was bred to be that golden colour with the flaxen mane tail the breed always breeds true to the colour. Even though there is extreme variation in that colour... That's not even accounting for the Cr dilute gene that produces your colours like palomino.
For instance
Chesnut
Chesnut + Cr = palomino
Chesnut + Cr + Cr = Cremello
Bay
Bay + Cr = buckskin
Bay + Cr + Cr = Perlino
Black
Black + Cr = smokey black
Black + Cr + Cr = smokey cream

And then you get into some really crazy stuff with other dilutes.
Don't forget that there's is how a colour 'presents itself' meaning that it is how it looks regardless of genetic composition, and the actual colour as defined by genetics. A very light coloured bay with the flaxen gene may 'present itself' as looking like a palomino despite the fact that it is not a result of a dilution of the chestnut gene and therefore not truly a palomino by genetics. Or this silver dun (https://goo.gl/images/NklSU8) looks like a palomino (well, if you don't notice the dorsal stripe) Rose grey in horses can often be confused for foals with the 'grey' gene that are born chestnut because as they 'grey' out it can sometimes give a rose grey appearance. (True rose grey https://goo.gl/images/9OgaKh) but a true 'rose grey' and not just a process of greying will retain their colour. I leased a 14 year old rose grey Arabian once. Beautiful creature even if she liked to randomly make noise.

Genetics are complicated... Which is why I mostly ignore it since I have no intention of becoming a breeder.

[Jay 2K Winger]

It looks almost like the gorgeous fractal-like patterns you see on the skin of people struck by lightning. It's amazing!

Lichtenberg scarring-- hell, just Lichtenberg figures in general are pretty awesome.

[eltf177]

Any updates, particularly on nutjob?

[AkaiKitsune]

Any updates, particularly on nutjob?

Not much to say. The nutter is in a cell and last I heard they were trying to figure out a way to get all the charges against her without it turning into life in prison simply from the amount of time attached to some of the charges. Some of them have a you have to do XX amount of time period before we even look at letting you go and others can only be served consecutively instead of blending it into one big time chunk. I love my lawyer. He's a bit of an ass sometimes to deal with but he's so damn good at what he does.

The horses are otherwise fine. Though another mare dropped a foal with OLWFS and it had to be put down. There's also a gaggle of rescue foals running around at the moment since the owner has a soft spot for abuse victims. Yay spring and bottle feeding... Up all night on foal watch... Freezing rain all damn night time.

[Seanette]

OLWFS? Remember, some of us don't speak equine medicine.

[KuariKaydrith]

I googled it. It's overo lethal white foal syndrome. These foals appear outwardly normal but their colons are non-functional. Within a few hours after birth they show signs of colic and would normally die in a few days, but due to the pain and lethality of this syndrome they are humanely euthanized. They are usually born all-white or nearly all-white with blue eyes.

[protege]

Given how psycho the twit was I wouldn't put it past her to try and get your horse put down in revenge.

I'd hope that, given the fact that she was attacked with a whip and defending her babies, a reasonable judge would toss it out, but it depends on what the law currently is.

Problem is that if she has enough cash, she could easily land some ambulance-chaser that would gladly take the case. Even though she'd probably lose, she could do enough damage to hurt the stable's financial condition enough to put them out of business....never mind that she caused her own injuries after doing something stupid.

Some of you know that my grandparents once owned a farm. While our horses were gone by the time I was born, several surrounding farms had them. The farm across the highway had several Belgians. Beautiful animals, huge, and very strong work horses. Even with their size, they usually tended to run from humans. The exception, was if there were any babies present. I was always told, that if you saw the little ones, to keep your distance. If you didn't, you took the risk that Momma might fuck you up.

[dalesys]

... Momma might fuck you up.

As in, "She put her foot down!"

[Lace Neil Singer]

Poor mare and poor you! I hope that everything works out for you, and that idiot gets what she deserves. I googled perlino horses, and they're beautiful. Tho I'm betting that since your stallion is that colour, he favours piles of manure and mud to bathe in. I used to work with shire horses and the greys all loved mudholes to roll in. Super fun when you had to get them pristine for a wedding. XD

[protege]

As in, "She put her foot down!"

...or gave you a hoof to the face I remember hearing that one of the stable hands got kicked in the face, while dealing with a pissed-off mare. He got damn lucky to escape with a broken nose and jaw.

[Pixelated]

Sweet Jesus in a breadbox this woman is going to kill herself with this attitude.

One can only hope, eh?

She wanted to take UNWEANED foals from their mother?? In what universe is taking an unweaned animal from its mother EVER a good idea? I mean, aside from the fact they weren't her horses to begin with ...

Hope the mare recovers. I understand she's not even letting humans she trusts anywhere near them now ... can't hardly blame her, though ...

There has GOT to be a serious mental health issue at play here.

Nope, just a phenomenal sense of entitlement. "I want it, you won't give it to me, so I'm going to take it."

Not much to say. The nutter is in a cell ....

I'll bet that was a blow to her overinflated ego.

[Kit-Ginevra]

OLWFS? Remember, some of us don't speak equine medicine.

Ah that'll be...Old Ladies Who F*** Stallions?

[AkaiKitsune]

OLWFS? Remember, some of us don't speak equine medicine.

Also called lethal white syndrome. It's an autosomal genetic disorder most common in the American Paint Horse. (Which is why it's sometimes called overo lethal white foal syndrome or OLWFS for short) Affected foals are born after being carried to term and externally appear normal, though they have all-white or nearly all-white coats and blue eyes. However, internally, these foals have a nonfunctioning colon. Within a few hours, signs of colic appear; affected foals die within a few days. Because the death is often painful, such foals often are put down once identified. It's also often associated with paint horses (though it does appear in other breeds) and more specifically the frame overo pattern. There's now genetic testing for parents as the gene is recessive and both parents have to be carriers for it to carry over and even then it's not garenteed.

I really wish there was a customers suck section for people who have to deal with animals and customers. Ie pet stores stables vets farriers groomers breeders etc. Not just horses but animals in general. Because it's always fun to have a SC and an animal that doesn't give a damn about company policy or the SCs wants.

On the bright side, there's more horses coming in. Their quarantine is finally over. Rescues all the way from the states. Two of the rescued from last year have gone on to become riding school ponies for the disabled and another went off as a seeing eye pony (a little shetland. She's got special boots and everything for walking inside) wasn't actually aware that was a thing until recently. Apparently the girl's allergic to dogs but not horses.

...or gave you a hoof to the face I remember hearing that one of the stable hands got kicked in the face, while dealing with a pissed-off mare. He got damn lucky to escape with a broken nose and jaw.

While I can't say I've been kicked in the face I have been kicked before. You'd be surprised at the amount of force even a small pony can apply. I've currently got a fractured jaw/cheekbone because my horse spooked at some assholes revving their motorcycles while passing the horses.(there's a small road you have to cross to get to the trails) took a tumble off on the asphalt and turned my head to avoid breaking my nose. Better off then the one girl whose horse reared over backwards. Lucky she was able to slide off before he went over. They didn't even stop to see if their actions had done anyone damage.

I've had to make a fence a few feet inside the actual fence because that paddock is really close to a school and the kids keep feeding the horses apples (which are high in sugar). We've tried signs, talking to the school, leaving carrots for the kids to feed them instead. But we've had three cases of colic this week and as much as I hate depriving kids of the interaction with horses when every kid in the school wants to feed them apples it gets dangerous for the horses (like a little kid gorging themselves on sugar. They feel great until they don't. And then they're very very sick. But because it takes time to reach that point they don't necessarily associate apples with pain). We've got someone out there to stop them from throwing apples over the fences at least. Some of the school teachers volunteered to trade days which is nice of them.

[RealUnimportant]

Seeing eye/assistance ponies are awesome, as well as the allergy issue they also live longer which can be helpful for other reasons.