Shut your damn kid up.

[Ree]

On that note, I can't see this thread getting any better.

There are always going to be 2 sides to this issue, and no amount of discussion will sway either side.

The point is, if a parent has a screaming child, they should show some consideration for others and make an effort to calm the child or do something about it.

If a person is in the presence of a screaming child, and the parent is doing their best to resolve it, show some compassion and patience.

On that note, I think I'm going to close this one.

[Alpha Strike]

Is it really worth your energy and effort getting all worked up and irritated about something that the parent is at least trying to stop?

It's not a matter of what I perceive as a "good parenting" vs "bad parenting." As long as what you're doing is legal, raise your child however you want - I have no interest in trying to impose my decidely non-parental skills on you. Nor is it a matter of why the child is crying - that's frankly irrelevant to this particular discussion. The point is that when you bring your child into a restaurant, theater, store, etc and it screams its head off for seemingly forever, that can affect everyone around you. Depending on where you are, that means your child is having a negative impact on literally dozens of people. Does that seem fair?

Even if my son is changed, fed, etc., he can still cry if he's upset for whatever reason. I'm not a child psychologist, nor am I a mind-reader, so I'm terribly sorry if I cause you any discomfort while my son does something that is natural and instinctive to him...

Your child's urge to urinate or defacate is "natural" and "instinctive" as well, yet you take steps to handle that. Your child can't address those concerns himself, so you do it for him. Why is this any different?

More importantly, your crying child isn't just affecting me, he's affecting everyone around him. Why should a whole restaurant full of people have a bad dinning experience or a theater full of folks have their movie ruined because of one screaming baby?

I sympathize with your situation since parents need "out" time too, and I try and tolerate children as best as I can. However, "Parental dilemma" aside, no one has been able to explain to me why it isn't reasonable to be able to expect a fair amount of quiet in certain public places?

I love how non-parents try to tell parents how to raise their kids and how to live their lives...

I don't really think anyone is trying to tell you how to parent, beyond just asking or begging that you keep your child reasonably quiet.

But shirking that responsibility by saying "there's no sign" is silliness indeed. Do you need a sign to tell you that you have to pay your purchases before you leave the store, that you drive on the right side of the road in the US, or that food is served in a restaurant?

Obviously we don't - and just as obviously it's up to you to keep your child reasonably quiet. Otherwise by your reasoning (restaurant offering child menu = encouraging people to bring noisy children) we could assume that restaurant serving drinks = encouraging people to get drunk in public or stores selling handguns = okay to shoot people.

All we're asking for in just a wee bit of peace and quiet.

*MOD EDIT - Please edit quotes. We don't need to read the whole thread again.

[Broomjockey]

Okay, it seems like things have calmed for the moment, but here's a friendly mod reminder anyway:

No personal attacks, people who haven't been there are entitled to their opinions, and people who haven't been there remember this, you don't know what's going on the rest of the time, so there just might be a reason this time, so cut a bit of slack.

[gunsage]

Si. Well, I guess just leaving si is not good enough. So...

YES

[Lace Neil Singer]

What he said. I left the thread to cool down, and I agree with what gunsage is saying. It's the parents who don't parent who are the culprits here; not the child. Just like a dog owner with a tiresomely yapping dog.

[gunsage]

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.as...75274&nav=0RZF

LOVE IT.

This is starting to get a little ugly and not to fuel the fire, but allow me to establish a point here that has probably already been said and, well... I am a father of...one. No, she has not entered the terrible twos yet and I'm sure no amount of alcohol or random violence will assist in dulling THAT. ANYWAY, yes, I'm a proud parent, but I remember what it was like when I wasn't and how ANNOYING it was when kids would SCREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMM in a restaurant and meanwhile, here are some parents that are acting like nothing's going on.

Again, allow me to clarify...if a parent is actively attempting to diffuse the situation, okay, cool. Hey, we can't all be the best negotiators in the world. Maybe he had a bad day and isn't really wanting to deal with this right now. Yeah, I get it, alright. But here's what I can't stand...

- Parents that act like nothing's going on. You might think that by ignoring the problem it'll go away. SORRY. It's clearly NOT going away and no amount of ignoring will work because EVERYONE is focused on the travesty that is your kids acting up and you not taking responsibility for it.
- Parents that are clearly doormats. I get a little peeved with wifey about this, but she's more sensitive than I am, so we compliment each other well. Yes, I'm fairly harsh. Therefore, my perception of this is blurred. I can't stand it when a kid is screaming at the top of their lungs and the parent is trying to sooth the kid with something crappy like "No no" sounding all cutesy like they breathe sugar. Yeah, THAT'S going to work. If it does, I'll give you a standing ovation. By the way, standing ovations to date = BIG FREAKIN' ZERO.

You really don't find too much else in the screaming children section, honestly. Either you find parents that are willing to get their kids in line or you find, well...not parents. Again, I'm fairly skewed in my viewpoint about discipline, so sometimes I don't pick up on subtlety. In any case, I won't admit to being the best parent ever, but I do what I can. I rarely get to spend time with my little one, given my schedule.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Did you even read my post? Doesn't look like it. I suggest you do, and save your venom for the people who are actually telling you what to do, cuz I haven't said anything like that.

Oh, and thanks for proving that you're actually one of those smug arsed know it all parents. I never accused you of that, but if the cap fits...

[FuzzyKitten99]

(By the way, not a rant at anyone in particular, just that what Fuzzy Kitten said made me think of smug parents. It's like people who assume that cuz you have kids, you've suddenly lost half your brain; it's the same kind of prejudice.)

you sound like you forget that we were all kids once, so just because you were one, doesn't make you in-the-know about trying to raise another human being, and being totally responsible for another life.

Until you are a parent firsthand, please don't preach about how you seem to know better. I know what works and what doesn't with my son, but sometimes he throws a monkey-wrench into the whole flow of things and I have to wing it.. Even doing daycare and dealing with other peoples' kids 8-10 hours a day, 5 days/week, I encounter problems that I have to guess my way through.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Actually, it's the smug, self satisfied parents who think that anyone who is child free knows nothing about kids who really get on my nerves. Guess what, I might not have kids, but firstly I have been a kid and experienced good parenting; second, I used to babysit and help my mum (who used to be a childminder) so guess what, I do know about kids. So get off your high horse right now, and actually parent. When you have kids, you can't do what you used to do as a childfree person; you have to fit your life around your kids, not the other way round. It's people like that who force kids to go to the cinema at 9pm, who drag them down to the supermarket 6 hours after the time that they should be in bed, and who go to posh restaurants and force everyone else to endure their child's nasty, antisocial behaviour. Honestly, if a grown man was running around the place screaming his head off, you'd expect something to be done. Just cuz it's a child does not make it "cute".

(By the way, not a rant at anyone in particular, just that what Fuzzy Kitten said made me think of smug parents. It's like people who assume that cuz you have kids, you've suddenly lost half your brain; it's the same kind of prejudice.)

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I think what a lot of people don't understand is that usually, nobody is more irritated by the whole mess than the parent. The parent is frustrated, stressed out, helpless, and embarassed.

They might look like they are ignoring it, but believe you me, they are more aware of it than anyone in the store, usually.

Your kindness is appreciated, I am sure. I know if it were me, I'd want to kiss your feet.

[FuzzyKitten99]

Well said, FuzzyKitten, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

I have to admit, I knew quite a bit about things like that before I had kids.

When parents have kids who act up at my store (OfficeMax), I just smile and let them know I have been there, done that, and that they aren't alone. I also try to make the kids smile and distract them while mom and/or dad get their business taken care of. I actually try to help rather than add to the parents' stress by getting upset over something that isn't worth getting upset over.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Well said, FuzzyKitten, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

I have to admit, I knew quite a bit about things like that before I had kids.

[FuzzyKitten99]

Actually, yes, that is exactly the point. If you and the mother are still together, then one of you should do the shopping while the other stays home with the kids; if not, see if you can get together with another single parent to split duties like this.

I love how non-parents try to tell parents how to raise their kids and how to live their lives... especially spouting their unrealistic, inexperienced views/ideas on how children should always behave, and if the kids act up somehow, the world has to stop for them, thus reinforcing the negative behavior.

Meanwhile, here on Planet Earth, most parents include their children in daily activites, often times because there is no alternative. Kids are individual people, human beings with their own thoughts and feelings, not puppies that misbehave at the dog-park. While I may be married, my husband's job requires him to work odd hours and on-call for 2 weeks in a row each month. This usually means I go shopping with the kids on my own. It has gotten better as far as my 4yo's behavior in the stores, but it wasn't always that way, and I never really had much of a choice but to take him and his younger brother with me. If I left in the middle of shopping or in the middle of meals because he's acting up a little, not only would nothing get done, it also teaches him to just act up any time he doesn't want to do something and he won't have to do it. 99% of the time that he acts up is because we are doing something or going somewhere he doesn't want to. I am the parent, and he has no choice but to do as I tell him. That doesn't stop him from objecting in his own way. If I relented every single time, how would that teach him to behave regardless of whether we are doing something he likes or not? Like I said, he's gotten better and behaves better, because he knows that if he acts up, it won't do any good. And if he's good, I usually let him pick out a small candy bar at the end.

As for restaurants, if you are some place where they offer a kids' menu, then I would suggest that you learn to ignore distubances from children, because there is nothing on the door or sign outside that says peace & quiet guaranteed.

[Freemage]

So, what, we're not supposed to be seen in public if our baby isn't behaving properly? Are we supposed to leave, to satisfy your comfort, just because we can't control the tone of our baby's crying?

Actually, yes, that is exactly the point. If you and the mother are still together, then one of you should do the shopping while the other stays home with the kids; if not, see if you can get together with another single parent to split duties like this.

As for restaurants, YES, PLEASE LEAVE. Step outside for 5 minutes; that may calm them down. If it doesn't, then ask your waitress to please bag/box everything up for you, while you wait outside the front door--believe me, most waitstaff will think you walk on water for this sort of thoughtfulness. If you're someplace where there is no waitress, get your food to-go, even if you're planning on eating there, so that if your child decides to turn up the volume, you can take everything with you to the car, and then go home after eating.

This has nothing to do with expecting you to be able to snap your fingers and appease your child. It has everything to do with expecting you to accept the responsibilities that come with parenthood, including setting a good example for your child about how to show consideration to those around you.

[marty]

Like I said before, it pissed me off ohh so much more that the mother was antagonizing the child, not that the child was crying.