Forget your ID day! (long, language)

[Bluenomi]

My cousin doesn't have her licence so she uses her passport instead. It's looking a bit ratty now, she really should get a proof of age card, jusst as good as a licence and is even the same size.

I don't understand how people go shopping without ID. My DL is in my wallet with my money. I don't have one without the other. Unless I'm broke, then I just have the ID

[Jester]

In any case, there really isn't an excuse, anymore, to not have an ID on you unless you're YOUNG. My youngest sister-in-law is 18, however, she doesn't have an ID. Her excuse is unique but unfortunate...her mother is a BIATCH that won't let her have so much as a learning permit.

As someone else mentioned, she can get an ID without getting a license.....every State, as far as I know, has non driver's license photo IDs available (somewhat ironically) through the DMV, or your local equivalent. My two teenage nieces here in town are both under 18 and both have ID that are not driver's licenses.

I have a problem with needing ID for things like video games ONLY because my ID is not an Ontario driver's license. It's an LCBO BYID card*, and most people look at it like it's capable of decapitating puppies.
It's legal, it's legit, it's accepted everywhere. Just take it.

This, "you NEED a driver's license," thing is stupid to me. Photo ID is necessary, yes, but for it to be required that only driver's licenses be accepted is foolish to me.

*stands for Liquor Control Board of Ontario Birth Year Identification card.
Picture + birthday + name = yes.

Um, no. It is not accepted everywhere. If, for example, you vacationed in the States and ordered a cocktail or purchased alcohol, that ID would not be valid for that purpose. For people from other countries, the ONLY ID's we can accept are driver's licenses or passports. So no, you don't need a DL...but don't fool yourself into thinking that your LCBO BYID is valid EVERYWHERE. And I don't know about Canadian law, or your local laws, but the LCBO BYID may not be valid for all age-related purchases. It may be, it may not be...as I said, I know squat about Canadian law. Just keep in mind that when someone asks for an alternative ID, they may be following company policy or the actual law.

Also, I do imagine that Canada has non DL photo IDs that these places that give you grief would probably accept. Just a thought.

It's funny how a lot of places here in the US don't get it that a passport trumps a DL. There's been a time or two I happened to have my passport on me but nooo, I had to go digging for my wallet.

Actually, a passport doesn't TRUMP a DL. As far as age-related purposes go, it's the same thing as a DL--to wit, a valid and acceptable form of ID for such purposes.

Sadly, anyone who doesn't accept the passport as a valid ID doesn't know what they're doing, as far as the law goes. I have never seen someone turn down a passport and demand a DL, but such idiocy would not surprise me.

It takes a lot these days to surprise me. Something along the lines of vanilla icing and brown sugar on the rim of the glass of a cocktail. Mmmmm......
Sorry, was thinking about earlier today. It didn't hurt that the above was the garnish on a great cocktail concocted/served by a very attractive young lady from Orlando.

Oh, one other thing....your friend who likes to use/flash his concealed weapons permit? If he was ordering a cocktail from me or other like-minded servers who do their job and follow the law, he would be denied unless/until he could provide a DL, passport, etc. Just saying.

[Silas G. T. Brontë]

In a different twist I've had people who have given me expired IDs/DLs, including some that expired in 2005 and because of corporate policy (and probably legal reasons) I can't accept them. Some people get upset over this.

I cannot understand how they have conducted business at all during those years without them noticing or someone else telling them about it.

One day a lady actually thought she could just cash a check from our bank by just using, get this, a photocopy of her DL!

[matty]

What really doesn't make sense is people who don't understand that checking ID when using credit cards is as much for their own protection as is it for the store's.

One example, I once had a customer paying by credit card, and I put it down on the counter for a moment while I was waiting for the transaction to be processed. She scooped it up. I said, "Sorry, I just need to hold on to that for another moment to check the signature". She huffed "Ha! Oh! But I shop here all the time!"

Is it that difficult? Do you, or do you not, want unauthorized purchases on your credit card?

[Captain Kidd]

Actually, a passport doesn't TRUMP a DL. As far as age-related purposes go, it's the same thing as a DL--to wit, a valid and acceptable form of ID for such purposes.

Sadly, anyone who doesn't accept the passport as a valid ID doesn't know what they're doing, as far as the law goes. I have never seen someone turn down a passport and demand a DL, but such idiocy would not surprise me.

True, I got a bit embellishing there with 'trump' I shoulda said you gotta jump through a few more hoops to get a passport so it's definately you and valid to prove that you are you and however old.

Oh, one other thing....your friend who likes to use/flash his concealed weapons permit? If he was ordering a cocktail from me or other like-minded servers who do their job and follow the law, he would be denied unless/until he could provide a DL, passport, etc. Just saying.

I think here, probably varies by state, the state-issued CC is counted as a valid form of id. Stress think.

ETA: And he only does it in-state too. He's not a jerk about it, since they're both in his wallet he has the DL there handy if he needs it.

[aurelemsrealm]

Oh yeah, the dreaded ID issue.......

I get so sick of customers who act put out at having to show their ID, forget to bring it, or leave it in the car and are too lazy to get it, especially when they know it's going to be required.

Our laws are kind of funny here. We're required by law to check ID regardless of age for beer sales. Tobacco and lottery sales are less restrictive. We're not required to check ID if the customer appears to be at least 40, or we personally know the customer is at least 18 years of age.

The Race Card: I must be racist because I'm asking for ID on beer as required by law.

I get this guy the other day, and he pulls the beloved race card. I'm white, he's black, and the race card is the only reason why I mention it. He came in two different times. The first time, he bought a couple of cigars. He did show me his ID, so I silently glanced at it, typed in the birthdate, and that was it. He has been in on previous occasions during which he did not show ID for cigars because I already knew he was old enough, and he didn't complain then because he was getting his way.

Then, later he comes back in for beer. There was a white girl ahead of him who bought cigarettes. She was a regular, so I already knew she was old enough because I'd carded her plenty of times. I simply asked her to remind me of her birthdate to type it in the register. She paid for her cigarettes and left. The guy steps up with his beer. He had his ID ready for the cigars earlier in the day with no fuss. He has shopped at our store enough times to know that ID is required regardless of age for beer sales, and it's never been an issue for him before. This time, though, he decided to complain that it was "prejudiced bullshit."

My response was to tell him to take his "prejudiced bullshit" down the road and shove it if that was going to be his attitude. Given the fact that he is a regular who should know how the system works, the accusation really pissed me off. So, I didn't hold back telling him what to do with his "prejudiced bullshit," as he called it. I told the assistant manager about it the next day. She knew who he was, and said he's never said a word to her. She said she knew that I wouldn't make such a story up either.

Anyway, I deal with plenty of customers from other races, and get along with them just fine. Race is just a personal detail to me. Any "prejudice" stems from the attitude and actions of the individual, not generalizations about their race, culture, or whatever characteristics. I could care less, but I hate bigots who want to play the race card just as much as I hate other white people who act like racist rednecks.

Then, there's the guy who just didn't have it with him, but thought I should let it slide because he comes in all the time.

Yes, you do come in quite frequently, and that's why I expect you to know better. All it takes is one time to let it slide, and I could be reported and lose my job. Quite frankly, your desire to drink is not worth my job, and I'm not afraid to tell you exactly that. Additionally, I'm not afraid to tell you that I could care less about your opinions. I already have plenty of opinions, and I'm sure you're no more interested in my opinions than I am in yours. I'm here to do my job so I can earn a living. It's nothing personal, it's just business.

Consider yourself lucky that I'm not required by law to ID you for those cigarettes, too. It's okay that you don't want the rest of this stuff on the counter because I'm refusing to sell you that 6-pack of beer. No, I won't throw that cigarette wrapper away for you because I'm busy clearing the counter of the stuff you suddenly decided you didn't want after your little temper tantrum. There's a trash can conveniently located just outside the door, so feel free to go out the door to make use of it, then keep on going elsewhere.

The fact that you returned three more times during the remainder of my shift is proof that they always come back, so the threats about never coming here again don't matter to me. I knew you'd be back despite all your whining and complaining. I've seen it too many times to believe it from other customers like you. I can always dream, but you'll certainly return because you're too lazy to inconvenience yourself on principle.

[FredKlein]

R: Is that debit or credit?
BW: Credit.
R: Okay, I'll need to see your card and a state-issued ID before you swipe it.

This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Both MasterCard and Visa Merchant Agreements PROHIBIT refusing a sale due to lack of Identification:

http://www.mastercard.com/us/wce/PDF...ire_Manual.pdf

9.11.2 Cardholder Identification
A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely
because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment
of a card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information,
except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A merchant may
require additional identification from the cardholder if the information is
required to complete the transaction, such as for shipping purposes.


http://www.usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf?it=c|/merchants/|Rules%20for%20Visa%20Merchants

Although Visa
rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants
cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot
refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to
provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their
regular card acceptance procedures.

American Express does say on their website that, if the card i snot signed, but says "See ID", then the merchant should "Request a signature. Ask the cardholder to sign the card and provide current government identification, such as a driver's license or passport (if local law permits). "

I'm unsure of other credit cards, the the above are the major ones here in the US.

[TryNotToBeThatOne]

I actually had a clerk apologize for asking to see my id when I used a card the other day. I have to admit I gave her the WTF look and said, 'why, it's for my protection?'

[marty]

This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Both MasterCard and Visa Merchant Agreements PROHIBIT refusing a sale due to lack of Identification

That may be so, but my store policy says that if I do it anyways and it turns out the card was stolen, my ass is fired on the spot. That and I'm not going to do it regardless because like I mentioned, this is one of those first places a theif comes after stealing someone's credit card. If someone actually pointed that out to me, I'd ask one of the managers to do the transaction. I mentioned the thing with the poor old guy and someone not checking ID at one of our other stores, it's not that ridiculous of a policy to have.

I mean, you could consider it taking matters into my own hands if that is the true agreement between the credit card companies and merchants, but it's generally our unwritten policy, it always has been, and I refuse to lose a job I enjoy because of something like that.

And it is ridiculous that people get pissy about it. I show my ID whether I'm asked for it or not, out of habit, because I sure as hell am not going to be paying bills for someone else's purchases.

Edit: And as a side note, why the hell are these people driving without their driver's licences to begin with?

[rerant]

Um, no. It is not accepted everywhere. If, for example, you vacationed in the States and ordered a cocktail or purchased alcohol, that ID would not be valid for that purpose. For people from other countries, the ONLY ID's we can accept are driver's licenses or passports. So no, you don't need a DL...but don't fool yourself into thinking that your LCBO BYID is valid EVERYWHERE. And I don't know about Canadian law, or your local laws, but the LCBO BYID may not be valid for all age-related purchases. It may be, it may not be...as I said, I know squat about Canadian law. Just keep in mind that when someone asks for an alternative ID, they may be following company policy or the actual law.

Also, I do imagine that Canada has non DL photo IDs that these places that give you grief would probably accept. Just a thought.

I used that ID at two bars in NYC and to cross the border.
So if it's enough to get me into another country as well as allow me entrance to two of that country's drinking establishments then company policy or not, it's not fair to assume that everyone is a driver and require only that piece of ID.

Stupid ID rules are the only times I will side with SC's.

And no, Canada (or at least Ontario) does not have non-driver's licenses.
What I have is the Ontario equivalent to that, yet it's not accepted as such.

The main reason why I have a problem with this is because of the fact that we don't have the option of non-drivers licenses, and those of us who have never had a need to spend $100 on a license they will never use get the shaft for it.

[Broomjockey]

And no, Canada (or at least Ontario) does not have non-driver's licenses.
What I have is the Ontario equivalent to that, yet it's not accepted as such.

You sure? I was almost positive I'd seen an Ontario ID card here. And I know Alberta has Provincial ID cards. How do I know? I've got one. No interest in driving, no desire to waste time with the tests. Also probably the best picture I've ever had taken of me.

[rerant]

You sure? I was almost positive I'd seen an Ontario ID card here. And I know Alberta has Provincial ID cards. How do I know? I've got one. No interest in driving, no desire to waste time with the tests. Also probably the best picture I've ever had taken of me.

I'm certain we have nothing like that, but to be even more sure I did a search for it and found nothing.
I'm not sure which Ontario ID card you're referring to, since we have DLs, health cards (with photos, birthdays and signatures on them, but they can't be used as ID for bars, clubs or purchasing alcohol or cigarettes), the BYID card and of course passports, but I've never seen or known anyone to ever mention a provincial identification.
The only thing I can think of if someone had an Ontario provincial ID is that it was either a health card that was confused as such or completely fake. You can get ID for any province, state or country printed in 15 minutes downtown Toronto for $50.

[Broomjockey]

I'm certain we have nothing like that, but to be even more sure I did a search for it and found nothing.

Might have been a health card, I'm not sure anymore. It was just used as collateral to sign out something, so not really stringent on what it was. I just find it incredibly weird that we've got Prov. ID cards, and Ontario doesn't. You'd think Toronto alone would have enough people who didn't want to drive to make it worth the effort to set it up.

[rerant]

I just find it incredibly weird that we've got Prov. ID cards, and Ontario doesn't. You'd think Toronto alone would have enough people who didn't want to drive to make it worth the effort to set it up.

I agree. I could rant and rant for days about how many problems it would solve if they just came out with one, but unfortunately none of that ranting does me any good.

And the worst part? I don't have a new health card, a DL or a passport. In order to get one of those things you need another as ID fr the application.
So I'm trapped in a position where the government has prevented me from being able to get the necessary ID that they require me to have.

Try wrapping your head around that one.

Yes, this is another reason why the necessity of a DL bothers me so much.

[Jester]

I think here, probably varies by state, the state-issued CC is counted as a valid form of id.

Well, in every alcohol serving seminar I've been forced to attend, they have stressed that the only valid forms of ID for alcohol purchases were driver's licenses, state issued ID cards, passports, and US Armed Forces ID cards. Now, your state may be different, and I don't claim to know the alcohol laws of every or even most states, but having worked with people from just about everywhere, I haven't heard much discussed that would lead me to think that most states are any different from the above requirements.

I used that ID at two bars in NYC and to cross the border.
So if it's enough to get me into another country as well as allow me entrance to two of that country's drinking establishments then company policy or not, it's not fair to assume that everyone is a driver and require only that piece of ID.

The main reason why I have a problem with this is because of the fact that we don't have the option of non-drivers licenses, and those of us who have never had a need to spend $100 on a license they will never use get the shaft for it.

It may have gotten you across the border, but remember, border crossing has different requirements than state laws regarding alcohol purchases.

It may have gotten you into two bars in NYC, but that does not mean that the employees there were doing their jobs, or following the law. Or NY law may be different from those I have worked under.

But the fact remains that in most states, the laws are as I have said they are. You may not like it, and you may not find it fair, and it may in fact NOT be fair, but the States do not write their laws with the convenience of citizens of foreign countries much in the front of their mind.

Laws are often unfair, but the fact is, if I work in a State that has those laws, and the only ID you have is the one you described, I cannot legally and will not in any way serve you alcohol. Does that suck for you? Yep. But I am not being arrested, losing my job, being fined, being unemployable in the main industry I have ever worked in, having a court date, or serving any jail time because you don't like the laws I have to work under.

Hell, I think the 21 year old restriction for alcohol sales is a crock of shit. I still won't sell to people under that age, despite my personal beliefs, because I don't want to deal with the potential shitstorm that could come down on me.

So you can hate our laws and bag on them and call them unfair all you want. And for the most part, I'll AGREE with you. But I still won't serve you without one of the four forms of ID I am allowed to accept. Period, end of story.