Nothing like a little anti-Semitism at work.....

[tollbaby]

Jester, I'm not the slightest bit Jewish or even related to any Jews (I'm from a long line of Catholics, lapsed myself). Even I'm offended by the terms that woman used. I'll admit that I jokingly use the term nazi (call myself a grammar or spelling nazi on the two forums I moderate), which so offended my Jewish friend from Chicago that he didn't speak to me for a week over it, and I've tried to be a bit more sensitive and not use those terms. But to use the words "Jewish" or "Jew" as derogatory terms is completely inecusable, just as it would be to call someone less intelligent a "Newfie" or a "Pollack" like my dad does, or to call any muslim person a "towel-head" like my grandmother does. *sigh*

YOu were definitely the better person, and I, for one, am very proud of you for controlling yourself - not sure I could have.

[minchazo]

Um, she was about late forties early fifties. Don't know that I would call it that much of an older generation, considering she was too young to have been a hippy!

Unfortunately, you just described my mom I think she uses the phrase 'cause she's never met anyone Jewish. I know I picked up the phrase 'indian-giver' from my grandma before I ever met a native american. I used it once (and only once)... on someone named Ms. Spotted-Elk. The phrase had just left my mouth when my brain finished playing connect the dots and I realized I'd put my foot in my mouth so far I could taste my kneecap.

[Pagan]

i.e., that Jews are cheap people,

No, no, no....that us Scots!

Doesn't "gyped" from from a shortening of gypsies who DID rip people off?

"Gypsy" is another term for the Roma. And just like any other ethnic group, there's good and bad in it.

be to call someone less intelligent a "Newfie" or a "Pollack" like my dad does, or to call any muslim person a "towel-head" like my grandmother does. *sigh*

Or "mick" for Irish (which I am part). My grandfather used a few terms for African-American people that, while I will not deign to type them here, were some of the most offensive ones you could think of.

YOu were definitely the better person, and I, for one, am very proud of you for controlling yourself - not sure I could have.

Here, here. And now I'm going to play into a sterotype! With my Scots-Irish temper, I could not have controlled my self with these "ladies" either.

[Becks]

What the hell is wrong with people?

Holy biscuit.

[donruss]

While I dont condone racism of any kind, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and say that they probably did not mean anything offensive by using that term. Its been around so long, its just a figure of speech now. Words in and of themselves are NOT offensive. It is the context in which those words are used. I learned a long time ago to never let words hurt me. If someone says something derogatory or ignorant and someone gets offended, I ask them why they are so upset because either that person is lying or not. If it is a lie, then they are ignorant pond-scum, if it is true, then you have nothing to complain about. Just my

Unfortunately these negative stereotypes DO have a basis in fact, no matter what it is. The best way to overcome a stereotype is to act against that type.

[Jester]

I'll admit that I jokingly use the term nazi (call myself a grammar or spelling nazi on the two forums I moderate), which so offended my Jewish friend from Chicago that he didn't speak to me for a week over it....

I personally think that your friend needs to lighten up a bit. Hell, we call the meter patrol down here "parking nazis," and the description is rather appropros. I DO understand some people getting a little bent out of shape by this, but I think that overall, most people, especially my generation or younger, doesn't view such things as insensitive or offensive. It just means someone who is way to rigid and tight-assed about whatever it is they are being a nazi about.

That being said, we should never forget what the original Nazis were. I had relatives that died in Auschwitz, though they were very distant relatives (my ancestors were mostly here in the U.S. by the end of the 1880's, for goodness sake), and I can see how downplaying what Nazis were would upset some people.

Vaguely related: check out the great song by Chumbawumba, The Day the Nazi Died. It's about how Nazis are still with us, which, of course, they are, even if they aren't speaking German and in jackbooted uniforms.

I can never listen to that song without thinking of my ex-fiance, The Brit. No, she wasn't a Nazi at all....she hated people like that. She's just the person that turned me on to the song. Kind of interesting the bouncy tune they attached to such heavy lyrics, too.

With my Scots-Irish temper, I could not have controlled my self with these "ladies" either.

There's a reason I never used the term "ladies" when I related this story.

While I dont condone racism of any kind, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and say that they probably did not mean anything offensive by using that term. Its been around so long, its just a figure of speech now. Words in and of themselves are NOT offensive. It is the context in which those words are used.

The fact that they didn't necessarily mean anything offensive by it, i.e., they were not trying to offend ME directly does not lessen the offensiveness of it.

The fact that to some people "its just a figure of speech now" is equally offensive, because people are ignorant of the underlying implication.

Words in and of themselves are not offensive. But this story is not about words, but about a couple of phrases that, in the context they were used, the phrases ARE offensive.

Look, you may think it's "just" a figure of speech now. I would hazard a guess that you are also not Jewish.

I have heard people talk about jury-rigging something, i.e., fixing something half-assed, just temporarily, and calling it "nigger-rigging" it. To many people, that's "just a figure of speech now." To me and many other people, it is a damn offensive way to say it. The implication is clear. To wit, that black people don't know how to do something correctly. I apologize to anyone who is offended by the word I used, but I think it is obvious that I don't mean anything by it....I find the phrase in question offensive as hell, but could not really refer to it without actually saying it.

Unfortunately these negative stereotypes DO have a basis in fact, no matter what it is.

Which is to say that there are cheap Jews. Which there are. There are also cheap Irish, Germans, Italians, Poles, Christians, Muslims, etc. There are cheap people everywhere. To say that this phrase has some basis in fact is to overgeneralize and basically condone what these people are saying. That I cannot do.

[CaroPhoenix]

One of my favorite authors is a Jewish gentleman named Kinky Friedman (real name: Richard also known as "Big Dick" ).

In a lot of his detective stories (which, coincidentally, starred an ex-singing Jewish cowboy named Kinky Friedman), he'd use the term "Christian them down". When I first read that, I laughed until I cried. My friends thought me odd about that.

[Bradester]

But to use the words "Jewish" or "Jew" as derogatory terms is completely inecusable, just as it would be to call someone less intelligent a "Newfie" or a "Pollack" like my dad does, or to call any muslim person a "towel-head" like my grandmother does. *sigh*

I've never heard the term "Newfie" used in that fashion. Is it more of a Canadian thing, referring to people from Newfoundland?

The only time I ever use "Newfie" is when I'm referring to my dog.

[donruss]

Words in and of themselves are not offensive. But this story is not about words, but about a couple of phrases that, in the context they were used, the phrases ARE offensive.

Look, you may think it's "just" a figure of speech now. I would hazard a guess that you are also not Jewish.

Actually the story is about words, one word in particular. The word being "Jew". No, I am not Jewish but I am American Indian and take great pride in my heritage. So, I have heard the slurs and insults as well. These things are only offensive if you LET them be offensive. I guess we can just agree to disagree.

[Jester]

Then we will have to disagree. Particularly when you say the story is about the word Jew. It isn't. It is about the phrases "Can I jew you?" and "I can't jew you down?" The word jew is not a problem here, and I never claimed it was. Hell, the only people who are going to get offended by the word "jew" are Nazis and their ilk!

But the objectionable phrases here use the word "jew" in a way that denigrates the Jewish people as a cheap money-grubbing shifty group. Considering I am the original poster in this thread, I dare say I know what I am talking about as far as the intent of the original poster and the context of the original incident.

[BlaqueKatt]

removed post as I realised some people probably don't care for the actual origin of phrases.

[Evil Queen]

"Pollack" like my dad does

"Polack" is not a derogatory name. I know this because I am Polish (and German). How ignorant fiends decided this was derogatory is beyond me (Wikipedia also claims this is derogatory. This is not true, though it is a inside joke with most people of Polish heritage that Poles can be airheads.)

Now, I will admit I sometimes call myself a Nazi. But I'm a Hate Nazi. I hate Racism. (If that makes any sense)

Using "Jew" as a verb is wrong and bad for my grammar. They should stop it.

[the_std]

When I was in high school, the two most popular derogatory terms were "jew" or "jewish" (man, that math test was so jewish!) and "gay" (dude, you're eating an apple? That's gay!). Can you guess that I went to a Christian high school? It was fucking ridiculous, and I blatantly refused to talk to people who used it on a regular basis.

Luckily, I've not heard it used in the past few years, except by one particularly backwards person I know. But it seems the kids in my brother's class (he's 16, duh) have started using the words "cancer-patient" as an insult. I don't pretend to understand.

... People are dumb.

[Evil Queen]

I dunno about "gay" (Been outta school for a while). But I have heard "ghey" which, according to wiktionary.org means:

(Internet, slang, pejorative) An alternate spelling of gay meaning ineffectual, unsatisfying, unfulfilling, stupid, untalented, and so on. Equivalent to the slang meaning of lame.

Usually associated with conversations about lame games.

[protege]

Then we will have to disagree. Particularly when you say the story is about the word Jew. It isn't. It is about the phrases "Can I jew you?" and "I can't jew you down?" The word jew is not a problem here, and I never claimed it was.

Exactly, Jester. It's not the *word* that's the problem, but the way it's being *used.* Also, just because it's a "figure of speech" now, does that make it less offensive? Sorry, but I don't think so--that's one phrase I don't use. I prefer to call people "cheap bastards" instead. Notice how that gets the meaning across, and is nowhere near as offensive. Well, unless you're a cheap bastard...

But seriously, when I was in school, "gay" was a popular insult. Mainly because people were too stupid to come up with more creative ones. Guess it was a generic insult It's actually funny though--people would use it for inanimate objects. As in, "that car is gay." Uh, last time I checked, it's either "a piece of shit," "looks like shit," etc.