But i'm (insert nationality here)

[Ironclad Alibi]

And dumb tourists? We get them too here in the states. Ever try watching someone eat a steamed crab that never has before? Yeah. My aunt watched people use the mallet to crack the shell then pull out what they could. They were eating lung, etc. All the stuff you're not supposed to be eating.

That reminds me of an experience my wife had before we met. She was in college and had a date with a guy to go to a crab feast. He figured he was going to gross her out with all the steamed crab mess. He went off to get some beers for them, and when he returned, she was up to her elbows in crabs showing everyone else how to eat them. He was dumbfounded. He didn't realize she was born and raised in Baltimore, Maryland, (crab central) and had been eating crabs since an infant.

All the talk about New Mexico reminds me of the time I was driving through the wide open and empty spaces of the desert in New Mexico. The sun set, and we were driving in the dark. All around the horizon were lights from houses. It was a sight to see.

[Jester]

It's not desolate! There's green all over, it's just not the overwhelming, suffocating green that you get in other parts....

Gotta side with my friend from the Poor Man's Arizona (aka New Mexico, or whatever they're calling it this week)....desert flora is not the same as the stuff most people think of as greenery, but it IS there, and it IS beautiful. It's just different. I challenge any of you to go to the Phoenix Desert Botanical Gardens and not be blown away.

Yes, from an airplane it looks like a big ole thing of kitty litter. It is not lush, and it is not all green. But the difference is what makes it great. Cactus flowers are among the most beautiful in the world, and cactus juice has more uses than most of you can possibly imagine. Having had Prickly Pear Margaritas, I have to tell you....the stuff rocks. (What?!?!? Naturally I am going to point out the use of it that *I* like the most!)

The desert may not be for everyone, but it does rock, and it is NOT just a barren wasteland of dust and dirt, as many people seem to think.

And considering that the three fastest growing metropolitan areas in the U.S. are all desert cities, Pagan and I are not alone in our appreciation of the desert.

[Ironclad Alibi]

On a somewhat related note, if any of you American fellows want to drop by this side of the pond, keep in mind that our Blowing Stuff Up and Barbecue Day is ten days after yours.

Indeed it is, and I've been invited to a celebration the evening before by a local French social club my wife is a member of. I have also been told I will be taking my cheese puffs (Gougere Bourguignonne) since no one in the group seems to be able to make them as well as I do. They thought I had sabotaged the receipt until one member watched me make them one time, and verified that the recipe was correct.

[PepperElf]

The company might not be based in the US but they may have employees who ARE. Those employees may be pissed off if the boss says, "Well we don't support this holiday so *cracks whip*, you work NOW." So it's likely to be easier to just give them the day off instead of fighting unhappy people.

And they may also realize "well not much is going to get done today anyway, so let's take a break and have a holiday too." I mean really, who'd be mad about getting a day off from work?

And, if they're located in the US, they might also be taking into mind that driving conditions could be sucky for the holiday.

[Pagan]

What our tour guide was astonished at had absolutely nothing to do with population....she had no idea just how big New Mexico was areawise.

The woman was displaying her ignornace not by asking about the milk in the bag so much as if they had refrigeration, which is, in fact, ignorant.

See, I didn't see it that way, because there is some non-refrigerated, shelf-stable milk out there.

And far be it from me to stop anyone from making fun of New Mexico (which I often refer to as "a poor man's Arizona").

Watch it buster!

But I have to step up for my Southwestern brethren here. Can it be much longer before people start looking elsewhere for their new home? Say, Albuquerque? Santa Fe? Las Cruces?

As a native New Mexican, thank you Jester.

Santa Fe is the longest, continuous capital in the US, since 1609 (which makes it as old as Jamestown).

Albuquerque is the 25th fastest growing city in the country. And you wanna talk technology? The world's fastest computer, "Roadrunner" is at Los Alamos National Labs (Manhattan Project anyone?). Not to mention all of the missile system testing that goes on at White Sands Missile Range. Which is not too far from Spaceport America (yes, it's not much now, but give us time).

The Columbia landed at White Sands Space Harbor in 1982 and is still the Primary AOA on many launches.

On less technological note, if it wasn't for Las Cruces and NMSU, there wouldn't be all of the chile varieties that we have now. There's also a lot of development of agriculture for arid lands that goes on at NMSU. Also has one of the country's top Engineering schools. I could go on, but I digress. (If you couldn't tell, I'm an Aggie!)

Hehe, I've been in NM twice. Sure, it is pretty desolate, but the northern section is actually green in places. Not as green as, oh, Pennsylvania...but it's still green. Still has a desert climate though. Other than Raton, Cimmaron and Philmont Scout Ranch, I really don't have much experience traveling around NM, other than the scenery is freaking awesome

Still, before I went, I at least learned a bit about the area--its Spanish influence, what brought people to the area (copper and gold), etc. Interesting stuff, IMHO. I didn't want to look like the ignorant tourist we all complain about here

You didn't look over the Native American part of our tri-culture did you? Try being an Anglo (even though I don't have an Angle blood in me) native New Mexican. The comments I've gotten from ignorant tourists....I could write a book.

It's not desolate! There's green all over, it's just not the overwhelming, suffocating green that you get in other parts....when it's not on fire. >.>

Yes, it might not have that large of a population, but New Mexico is a beautiful state with an incredible history. There's a reason that our license plates say "Land of Enchantment". I'm going to miss it a lot when I move to Scotland.

[protege]

So I am going to enjoy your country's Scotch, sir (ma'am?). But stop stomping on New Mexico. It's a lovely place. And besides, making fun of it is the job of all of us Zonies!

Hehe, I've been in NM twice. Sure, it is pretty desolate, but the northern section is actually green in places. Not as green as, oh, Pennsylvania...but it's still green. Still has a desert climate though. Other than Raton, Cimmaron and Philmont Scout Ranch, I really don't have much experience traveling around NM, other than the scenery is freaking awesome

Still, before I went, I at least learned a bit about the area--its Spanish influence, what brought people to the area (copper and gold), etc. Interesting stuff, IMHO. I didn't want to look like the ignorant tourist we all complain about here

[Jester]

If it's a NATIONAL holiday, and you LIVE in the nation, then the holiday DOES apply to you. It's a stat. If you work on that day, legally you should be getting at least time and a half, or is it double time? (unless they give you an extra day off).

Depends on where you live and what work you do. If you work for the government, yes, but not all companies nor all business work like this. Certainly the food service industry does not.

Nope, legally, you get minimum wage, unless it's over 40 hours for the week, then it's time and a half, unless you're exempt salary, then you're screwed.

Again, varies from company to company, business to business, and place to place. There is NOT one overlying rule.

kinda makes ya scratch your head, and wonder if they learn anything about the world outside of the US at their schools.

As an American, I have to tell you that a lot of Americans really don't learn much about the world outside the U.S. Hell, a lot of them don't know much about things IN the U.S. I have been asked some ignorant questions by Americans about both my home state of Arizona ("Do you have to go miles to the nearest store?" No, moron, Phoenix IS the 5th largest city in the nation, thank you very much.) and my current home of Key West ("Do you take American money?" Yes, idiot, this is still part of Florida, which is still part of the U.S., thanks.).

Hell, while not all or even most Americans are that stupid, many of them are a little clueless when it comes to non-American geography. And the rest of the world kind of expects us to be clueless now. When I met my Estonian roommate, he was shocked when I not only said I know where Estonia was, but described accurately where it was!

hehe, i doubt you'd ask about internet existing in europe though

You are giving people too much credit. Trust me, there are people out there who would probably ask something like "So, with all those castles, do you folks have internet?", etc., etc.

Maybe I am oversensitive but all the American bashing here is really offensive.

I don't see it at all as American bashing. I see it as bashing those Americans that are loud, obnoxious buffoons when they travel. There are also obnoxious Frenchmen, Brits, Russians, Czechs, Canadians Germans, Japanese, etc. I have dealt with all of them. I have also met tons of wonderful Americans, French, Brits, Russians, Czechs, Canadians, Germans, Japanese, etc. There are stupid assholes in every country, and some of them travel. And there are great people in every country, and some of them travel as well. But, human nature being what it is, people tend to remember the assholes far more clearly than they do the cool ones. So of course, if you deal with American tourists a lot, the ones that are going to stand out are the Ugly American stereotypes. Ditto with any country.

Hell, I LIVE in America and I deal with stupid American tourists. Daily. I have also met some of the greatest people here, and they too are American tourists. I think most people who work in tourist towns have had that experience, though not all of them realize it.

And back to your point, I really didn't see anyone (well, maybe one) truly American bashing. Most people here said they have dealt with both idiot Americans AND cool Americans. SCs come from all countries, folks, but so do cool people. Hell, look at this site for proof of the latter!

And you don't see that as antagonistic? That was a legit question. We don't have milk like that in US and she was curious about it.

I see it as more smartassy than antagonistic, but that's besides the point. The woman was displaying her ignornace not by asking about the milk in the bag so much as if they had refrigeration, which is, in fact, ignorant.

And by the way, you are wrong on one count: We DO have milk in a bag in the U.S. You won't normally see it in the grocery store, but in a lot of restaurants that serve a lot of milk (breakfast places, diners, etc.) they DO have large milk refrigerator/dispensers where the server just lifts a handle and milk pours out of a nozzle. Know what's in that dispenser? Right. A huge ole bag of milk. I know, having loaded more than my share of them in my days with Denny's and other such places.

And since most old people are on welfare they get an entitlement attitude.

Most old people are on welfare? Say what? How do you figure that? I can see you saying they are on pensions, or retired, or on Social Security, but on welfare? Well, no, they're not.

And while there are tons of old cranky people with entitlement issues, there are also tons of sweet older people that are just a pleasure to be around. Just like my earlier comments that SCs come from everywhere, they also come in all ages. I have met cranky young people and sweet old people.

Yes, but there is one major point about New Mexico...there's sod-all there.
The place is a vast, empty desert.
Hell, just one city in Scotland - Glasgow - has a greater population than the whole of N.M.
It ain't about the square miles, it's about what's in them

Okay then, take my home state of Arizona. Also a "vast, empty desert" by most people's calculations.

Yet it has more people than Scotland. It is growing faster in population than Scotland. And since you brought up Edinburgh, which is, I believe, Scotland's second largest city, allow me to point out that Tucson, Arizona's second largest city, has a larger population than Edinburgh. AND that Phoenix, Arizona's largest city, has a larger popular than Glasgow and Edinburgh combined. It is also the 5th largest city in the U.S., trailing only New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston. They have major sports teams, host large sporting events, are one of the premier destinations for conventions and vacations, and generally speaking, freakin' rock. And yet, just a few decades ago, Phoenix was just a small city in the middle of the desert with really nothing going on. All this in a "vast, empty desert."

Now, I am not here to bash Scotland. By all accounts, including that of my little sister's, it is a lovely place. Nor am I here to get in a pissing contest about "my home is better than your home." And far be it from me to stop anyone from making fun of New Mexico (which I often refer to as "a poor man's Arizona"). But I have to step up for my Southwestern brethren here. Just because their population is not booming now does not mean it is not ready to start. The history of its western neighbor Arizona attests to that. Also remember that Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Tucson have been the three fastest growing cities for the last couple of decades or so. Can it be much longer before people start looking elsewhere for their new home? Say, Albuquerque? Santa Fe? Las Cruces? Seems silly to some people, but then again, it wasn't that long ago that the very idea of Phoenix being anything more than a hot city and Vegas being anything more than a hot city with casinos seemed ludicrous.

So I am going to enjoy your country's Scotch, sir (ma'am?). But stop stomping on New Mexico. It's a lovely place. And besides, making fun of it is the job of all of us Zonies!

[Becks]

2) It's hard, but try to learn some phrases in the language of the place where you're visiting. At the very least, carry around a pocket dictionary or something. Some people may speak English where you're going, but expecting them to do so is plain rude. At the very least, being able to ask "Excuse me, I'm sorry, but do you speak any English? My (language) is not very good yet" can go a long way. Especially if you're part of a tour group, you're going to most likely be surrounded by people who won't do even this, and you might actually get a genuine smile for doing so.

If I can't manage how to say a few (family friendly) words in whatever language of whatever country I manage to go to, I'll bring along an interpreter. God, I love my friends.

"The difference between Europe and the US is that Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance, and Americans think 100 years is a long time."

I used to have that quote as one of my away messages. I wish I could remember who said it, and I'm too damn lazy to google.

[Canarr]

It's just a point about the differences in size and scope between Europe and its progeny.

I read a quote a long time ago, don't remember who it was from, that was rather fitting, I think:

"The difference between Europe and the US is that Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance, and Americans think 100 years is a long time."

[Gurndigarn]

Yes, but there is one major point about New Mexico...there's sod-all there.
The place is a vast, empty desert.
Hell, just one city in Scotland - Glasgow - has a greater population than the whole of N.M.
It ain't about the square miles, it's about what's in them

This world has a strange way of making those pointless locations important. Most people thought the US was crazy for paying a whopping 7.2 million dollars for Alaska (in 1867 dollars, right after the civil war)... until the gold rush, and later black gold rush. No, New Mexico may not have a lot of people or technology right now. But disparaging things were said about the plain states before people moved there. Very disparaging things were said about Utah and Nevada. All it takes is a little bit— say, solar technology getting a bit more cost-efficient— and it can become on of the most valuable states we have.

Anyway, that's not a shot at Scotland. It's on the list of places I'ld like to visit if I ever become rich and famous.* It's just a point about the differences in size and scope between Europe and its progeny.

* On second thought, famous probably isn't worth the pain. I'll settle for merely rich.

[JustADude]

Wanna bet on that, sport? Try measuring from say, the most northern point of Finland to, say Gibraltar, or the Algarve to eastern Romania.

I stand corrected. Apparently, somehow, I was given the size of the USA in Kilometers while the size of Europe was in Miles. I really dunno HOW the hell that happened. Further double checking states the area of the USA as ~9,826,630 sq.km while the area of Europe is ~10,050,000 sq.km.



I'm not trying to brag or start a Fratching argument, just point out the fact that the average American has to travel one hell of a lot further to get to the closest culture with significant social differences than your average European, and they have to fly transoceanic to reach a first-world, industrialized nation that doesn't have English as one of the common conversational languages.

[Rapscallion]

Not necessarily yourself - it's a general note for the thread.

Rapscallion

[Canarr]

Okay, sorry; didn't mean it as an argument, just couldn't resist the urge to be a smartass...

[Rapscallion]

Ok, folks. This thread's heading towards heated territory. Arguing about the size of different areas is firstly causing ill will, and secondly it's not really relevant to the conversation. If you want to start talking about nationalities being rude/insular, we have Fratching for that.

Final warning before thread closure. Back on track, please.

Rapscallion

[Canarr]

I seem to be doing this a lot lately, but, Hemily, remember that the United States of America is very nearly 3x the size of the entire continent of Europe.

Actually, they are about the same size; the continent of Europe and the U.S.A. are both not quite 10,000,000 (ten million) square kilometers.