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**dbblsanta** · 08-10-2008, 03:46 AM

So basically he expects you to become a slave...

**hinakiba777** · 08-10-2008, 04:03 AM

Quoth dbblsanta View Post

So basically he expects you to become a slave...

Yeah he actually quoted the Bible.

Quoth Matthew6:24

No one can serve two masters, because either he will hate one and love the other, or be loyal to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and riches

I seriously want to slap the boy.

**South Texan** · 08-10-2008, 04:12 AM

Quoth hinakiba777 View Post

I've encountered a lot of people like that. It's shocking how many people think that I shouldn't get paid for my future career.

You also will encounter people who not only think the clergy should not be paid (or paid a pittance) but that their minister should not drive anything less than a mid-size sedan that is younger than three years old, should tithe at least twenty percent, should live in a large and fairly new house with nice furniture in an upper middle class neighborhood, should wear new and fashionable (though conservative) clothing, should have a stay at home wife (if male) who also wears fashionable but conservative clothing, and should host numerous parties and dinners at his/her home for the congregation during the year. This is the result of a survey done in the mid-nineties.

I used to think it was all a parody until I actually heard some members of my church say things like this.

**flybye023** · 08-10-2008, 04:19 AM

I really wonder if that guy was LDS and I apologize for his behavior if that's the case.

LDS "clergy" are laypeople who are not paid for church work and do have day jobs (my bishop (pastor) is a lawyer). While I would never expect my bishop to be on call 24/7, the truth is, if I really needed him he would be. Also, our weddings, funerals, and baptisms are all free. No fee for building use either church or temple or for the people performing the--rituals?

**smileyeagle1021** · 08-10-2008, 04:20 AM

not to take this into fratching territory, but there are churches where the ministry is entirely volunteer and no special training besides knowledge of scripture and a dedication to God is required... so the guy does have a point...

that said, if you are going to minister for a church that requires you spend thousands of dollars in training, then yes, they should pay you for the work you do, and they should pay handsomely if that is what they expect of their ministers.

eta- gazumped by flybye... and a lawyer, never had a bishop that was a lawyer, my current bishop is retired, before that was a guy who owned a car dealership, and before that was a guy who did drilling... I've had some interesting ones...
oh and I believe JWs are the same way with their clergy, and maybe other denominations as well, so it's not only LDS that this guy could be giving a bad name.

**1756GR2** · 08-10-2008, 04:22 AM

My guess is the guy just doesn't have any concept of what being a minister is.

The senior pastor I worked for _was_ on call 24/7 in many ways. Hours and hours at hospital with families without notice, prep time for regular services and funerals, council meetings, weddings, staffing conflicts, counseling, prayer meetings, youth programs, managing the facilities and the membership (and don't let anyone tell you there's no nasty politics in a church), and a myriad of other things. Getting called in the middle of the night to talk a suicidal youth down, or tend to the endless stream of upset members who come for comfort when a local or national disaster happens (remembering 9/11, a three-month long series of counseling and special services).

I would _not_ want that much responsibility, and knowing that people expect a pastor to be perfect is a big load on someone's shoulders. To expect someone to take on that much, and a family, and bills and educational loans with no pay? Incredibly unrealistic. He just doesn't have a clue.

**hinakiba777** · 08-10-2008, 04:30 AM

I should specify. The guy is part of my denomination of Christianity.

Also my church does have Lay ministers. They don't need special eduation. We also have Diaconal ministers who need to do post university training that isn't grad school However, only ordained ministers can perform the sacraments. In my church if you want to be ordained you have to know, and understand, all the sacraments and the history of the church.

**Dark Psion** · 08-10-2008, 05:01 AM

Now see if you were a Dungeons & Dragons Cleric, you could have smacked him with your +2 Mace.

**flybye023** · 08-10-2008, 05:34 AM

This thread reminded me of a letter to the editor some local tool wrote. Basically he was rippin' on doctors and nurses saying they should give their services away for free. His reasoning (if you can call it that) was some crap about the nobility of being a healer and the fact that health care should be free because unlike other services it was a needful thing.

**JoitheArtist** · 08-10-2008, 09:40 AM

You have no idea how much that guy's ideas make me want to hit him.

I had crappy ministers in my churches up through high school. Then my family moved, and we went to a church with a great pastor. He even took an hour of time out of his schedule to talk to me and a friend about some serious concerns we had (I don't know many pastors who would take 16-yr-olds that seriously). He really did his best to live up to expectations given the budget he had.

But the good ol' boys in the church were mad that he dared to bring new people in, so they slandered his name, nearly gave him a nervous breakdown, and ran him out of town.

Still working on forgiving those stinkin' S.O.B.s.

So, yeah, I make sure my current minister knows that he is loved and supported. God knows he needs it.

(BTW, good luck and my prayers will be with you as you start your ministry!)

**Victoria J** · 08-10-2008, 09:44 AM

I listened to some idiots on the bus discussing how no one should be paid if they work for charities.

I'm a full time worker for a charity. Volunteers do my job part time - but even the best is not as good as me, because they just don't spend as much time doing the work. It's bad enough we're all horribly under paid.

My mother worked full time for a charity for years - she's a registered social worker. The government here have let a lot of work be done directly through charities that used to be done by the government.

I know there are lots of nurses funded by the cancer charities - should they go and work alongside nurses in hospitals but just not be paid because they are technically employed by a charity ?

So - yes, some people are idiots. I've yet to meet anyone who thinks the work they do shouldn't be paid.

And why on earth shouldn't the people attending the church have a duty to contribute to the living costs of church workers ?

Victoria J

**Grumpy** · 08-10-2008, 09:53 AM

Well, like the bible says: "a straight left turneth away wrath".

**PossJB** · 08-10-2008, 09:56 AM

I'm not a religious person, but I can still say that preachers should be paid. They tend to have a lot of responsibilities among their congregations and in the community. If you can hold down a full time job and volunteer-preach, more power to you.

**Akasa** · 08-10-2008, 10:05 AM

At the church I've been going to since April we don't bring in enough to pay for the pastor to be a pastor full time.(We're a very small congregation, we don't even have a building. We meet on the pattio of a down town pizzaria.)
It doesn't keep him from offering support, advice, prayers, etc. Would I begrudge him the ability to make a living off our tithes? No way in hell.

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