More ID woes.

[Lingering Grin]

Oh well, I know that the (newer Florida) ones here scan up with everything printed on the front of the card. Name, Age, Driver's License number, height, weight, the whole deal.

Between, that and a blacklight, my dad and his friends bring in a couple dozen fake ID's a week each lol.
(They're cops )

[Happy Otter Lover]

I have never heard the law that only US licenses are valid. I live close to the US border and frequently go across to Washington to shop/drink. I've never had a problem using either my Canadian drivers license or British passport.

This does remind me of an incedent at a restaurant I used to work at, where a young man walked straight up to the bar and ordered a Heineken. When I ID'd him, he produced a passport from some Middle Eastern country, where the DOB clearly showed him to be only 18. Thankfully he went on his way without a fuss.

[Dude]

I always thought it unfair that the blunt of responsibility falls one the employee selling the age requirement item. At least it is the one area where you don't have to kiss customers' arse to please them. You have to follow the law no matter how upset a customer gets.

My favorite scram is the my friend who barely looks over 21 like me doesn't have their ID but all this alcohol for me. Here is my ID. How dare you refuse to sell it to me. I told you it is for me. Would do the same for a parent with their child? Of course I wouldn't do the same. I assume that most parents with a teenager wouldn't let their child drink. One 21 year old and their friend who looks anywhere from 16 to 21 is another story.

[Nyoibo]

U.S. issued drivers license/ID, passport, and picture military ID are it. Everything else is no good.

Ok, let's drill down here. With regards to passports, would that include passports issued by any country, or only US passports?

Please excuse the questions, just an aussie trying to wrap his head around the US requirements.

So far I've used a South Australian drivers license in new york, california, ohio, pennsylvania, west virginia, tennesse, florida and a few others I can't recall off the top of my head, I've never had a problem.

[rerant]

Federal law states only picture IDs issued by the United States government are valid for alcohol or tobacco purchases. Offenses start at 14 day loss of license and potentially a fine.

That's funny, because I always get served when I go to the U.S. Granted I've only ever been to NY state, but only once have I had an issue with gaining entry to a bar in Manhattan. I did get in and I was served there, it was just a small issue at the door.
And I don't have a passport or a driver's license - I use a BYID Card (birth year identification card), which is kind of like a non-drivers license.

[KiaKat]

Hm. Looks like the NY law allows for out-of-state, definitely. I'm not sure about foreign, although I know we'll only accept passports. That might be company policy, though.

I've rejected a couple of ID's in the past, although one ended up being valid, just marked up from having been in the guy's wallet.

Another one was expired. Now *that* was fun. Ugh.

[persephone]

The federal law leaves all ID requirements up to the states. My guess is that most border states and states with a lot of tourism allow for out of country IDs such as passports. However, states that probably don't have many foreign visitors probably don't.

Just makes sense logically to me.

[Jester]

What happens if someone is on holiday, and only has foreign ID? Is service still refused?

U.S. issued drivers license/ID, passport, and picture military ID are it. Everything else is no good.

I've had that problem in New York State once - would not even take my Canadian passport when I was 12 years older than the drinking age.

Ok, let's drill down here. With regards to passports, would that include passports issued by any country, or only US passports?

Passports ARE valid forms of ID, from ANY country. I find it odd, Bandit, that they would not take your Canadian passport. It's not like Canada's a country they've never heard of, especially in New York.

As for the rest, yes, passports are valid. I repeat, passports are valid.

I have also been told by the gentleman who runs our alcohol seminar down here that foreign-issued driver's licenses are fine, as long as we can read and understand said licenses, i.e., that we can recognize that they are licenses, and that what, precisely, the holder's birth date is. (Obviously they need to have the holder's picture on them.)

Green cards? I thought not, but we had an issue with just such a thing the other day, and now I am not so sure, as said ID WAS U.S. government-issued and WAS a picture ID. Still waiting to get confirmation/refutation that one.

But non-picture IDs, no. Even if it's a license, no picture, no dice. Yes, that's been tried.
Non-goverment issued IDs, absolutely not. Those are almost always fake IDs. And yes, that's been tried and argued about.
Health cards, student IDs, work IDs, etc. No, no, and no.

Federal law states only picture IDs issued by the United States government are valid for alcohol or tobacco purchases.

As far as I know, there is no FEDERAL law regarding ID/alcohol purchases. Such laws are at the STATE level.

[persephone]

As far as I know, there is no FEDERAL law regarding ID/alcohol purchases. Such laws are at the STATE level.

Correct. Because technically there is no federal drinking age or smoking age -- it's a State issue, as it should be. However, if the legal drinking age in any state is under 21, I believe the federal government has decided that said state would no longer be permitted to receive certain federal monies, like money for highways and other federal tax dollars. Meaning that the federal drinking age is 21.

However, the ID issues are left up to the states.

[Jester]

You are correct, Persephone. Years ago, the federal government basically blackmailed all the States into changing the drinking age to 21 by threatening to withhold federal transportation funds, which were rather sizable. Naturally, all the States complied. Money speaks.

[MadMike]

Passports ARE valid forms of ID, from ANY country. I find it odd, Bandit, that they would not take your Canadian passport. It's not like Canada's a country they've never heard of, especially in New York.

I'm guessing it's because they don't know how to spot fakes from other countries. I imagine it's hard enough with 50 different possible licenses, and it would be almost impossible with passports from however many countries there are in the world.

I do know that a lot of bars keep a book with pictures of every state's ID. I saw them get it out at the one bar I frequent. A young-looking woman came in, apparently with an out-of-state ID, and the bartender got out the book, and looked thru it completely. Apparently she still wasn't sure, because she took it in the back, presumably to show it to the manager. When she came back, she handed it back to her, and said, "Sorry, I can't serve you."

The girl left without further incident, but if her ID was indeed valid, that had to suck for her.

[Jester]

I'm guessing it's because they don't know how to spot fakes from other countries. I imagine it's hard enough with 50 different possible licenses, and it would be almost impossible with passports from however many countries there are in the world.

Actually, most passports look basically the same. There are variations, of course, but it is NOT a single card like a driver's license, and not something someone is likely to fake, or fake well.

I have had people attempt to give me a single page from their passport, without the entire thing. Thank you, no, that isn't gonna fly, have a nice day, NEXT!

[Chromatix]

Yes, I think passports are a standard format. At the very least, they have to be compatible with visa stamps, and the optical readers for the coded information on the ID page. They also have to be immediately recognisable by immigration personnel.

Most airports have separate lanes for "local and familiar" and "foreign parts" passports, but that's just to speed up the straightforward decisions for the common cases. For example, at a British airport, there will be many lanes marked "British, Commonwealth and EU passports", and a couple marked "Everyone Else".

[raije]

One of my major pet peeves is when you tell a customer what the rules/laws are, and they say "I understand", yet continue to argue.

You obviously don't understand, you idiot. You can argue with me until you're blue in the face, but your cigarettes/return is not worth me losing my job.

AMEN.
Just like customers and cigarettes. "Oh you remember that I'm 18 right? Cause I forgot my ID." Is a SURE FIRE way to get carded. I work in a small enough mall that you can walk to your store and back in two minutes for the most part.
I don't want someone calling in and saying "So and so is selling to minors" (which they can, and not all mall employees look their age) and getting hit with the fines and/or job loss etc.

This is my pet peeve.

[Bandit]

Passports ARE valid forms of ID, from ANY country. I find it odd, Bandit, that they would not take your Canadian passport. It's not like Canada's a country they've never heard of, especially in New York.

As for the rest, yes, passports are valid. I repeat, passports are valid.

The scary part is that it was in Watkins Glen, NY on a race weekend. All the other times, I've been in the US when I have been ID'd, my Ontario Driver's Licence is good enough to get some of the Amber Gift from the Gods (aka beer) . This includes Deliverance, TN. (not the real name of the town, but it you could recast for the movie there).

If I had to guess, they had just been busted for selling to underage not that long ago, and were being 3 ways from anal. Their loss. I went to the store across the road, and ended up spending even more as I needed ice.

B