Can I wait for you to find this complex obscure problem?

[Automan Empire]

I've been fixing people's cars full time for over 23 years now. I have a good level of empathy for drivers not understanding the complexities of their vehicles, but sometimes people have an astonishing lack of common sense.

A new customer brought her car today.

She says it has had this problem since she bought it in 2007. Only when ambient temperature is above 80f, and after driving at least 10 minutes, the electrical system glitches and multiple systems malfunction until she parks; ten minutes later the car starts normally but has an SRS (airbag) light on the dash.

She says it has been to a few different dealers on 4 occasions. One dealer kept it for 2 weeks, and it seemed "better" for exactly one day after that. Otherwise, nobody has found anything despite lots of checking.

This morning is overcast and temps in the upper 60s. The symptom won't happen until afternoon today, by her own description!

At the end of her long description, she asks, "So can I wait while you check it?"

I wanted to say, lady you are joking right? But no, she in all seriousness thought it would take an hour or two to cure. She spent an hour wandering around and using her cell phone until she got a ride from somebody.

Diagnosing this problem ain't like making a deli sandwich! Who knows how long it will take.

[IT Grunt]

I get this a lot from users. Computers can be just as complex in their issues, but I've had users who would ask me 'Is it fixed?' 2 minutes after I sit down at their machine. "Why yes, I have laid hands upon it and exorciiiised the demon!"

[protege]

Diagnosing this problem ain't like making a deli sandwich! Who knows how long it will take.

*knows this quite well*

Some of you know that my MG had some ignition-related issues last month. I was hoping to take it out Easter Sunday, but the damn car wouldn't start. Seems that the ignition points had fried themselves, and the battery went flat while trying to start it. After some colorfully-laded phrases I then tried to figure out what had happened.

Had the battery checked, it was crap. Replaced that, which is a *pain* on a "B." For those who don't know, the battery is hidden under the rear seat. Meaning, said seat has to come out, along with the metal cover underneath. Taking the seat out and that cover off, isn't a big deal. But, the battery hole is so tight, you can easily skin your knuckles if you're not careful

Anyway, after checking the ignition coil (which was still good, yet I replaced it anyway), the problem seemed to be inside the distributor. Took that apart...and found the problem. After a month (yes, you read that right!) of messing about, I figured out what was wrong. Seems that the points had not only been fried, but they'd apparently cooked a ground wire as well. Oops.

Rather than fit another set of points, I thought I'd go with an electronic setup. Not really hard to fit--it uses the same mounts that the points did. However, it lasts far longer, and doesn't require adjustment.

No sooner do I get it in there, and fire the car up...when it all went downhill! Because of the burnt wire, I couldn't set the ignition timing! I tried, but couldn't get it set correctly. After messing about with the distributor itself (and having found that it no longer fit into its mount!), I'd had enough. Ended up trailering the car to Pep Boys courtesy of Triple-A.

Found out that one of the mechanics there is heavily into older vehicles But, before I went down there, I described what the car's problem was, what I'd attempted to do, and what I wanted done. They were sure they could handle it.

...and handle it they did. Took a bit longer than I would have liked, but when you consider the car is nearly 40, I can't really complain. I'm lucky to get it fixed at all! Hell, it runs much better than it did!

What I'm trying to say is, that I *understand* that car repairs take time. I didn't get upset about not being able to drive it...mainly because I wanted it fixed correctly. Well, that and I wanted to clean out the garage too But, seriously, I couldn't give the guys a hard time...mainly because if I did, I'd not only piss them off, but possibly not get the car fixed.

*If anyone wants the full story, check out my LJ

[Megg]

"Why yes, I have laid hands upon it and exorciiiised the demon!"

That was too funny! It's like that's what people really expect from repair people of all types. Yet, those are the first ones to look down on service people, you know - the ones who understand the rituals of exorcism?

I would hate to be in the car repair industry, too. Everyone probably thinks you are ripping them off and tries to haggle.

[Bliss]

huh, wait, you mean the electric system on the MG shouldn't fail like that??

I'm sorry protege, it's just Lucas jokes never get old to me.

[auntiem]

It's not just repairs. People were like this with complicated intineraries and hotel / tour bookings. They couldn't understand why I wasn't getting immediate confirmation. Um, because it is 3am there and everyone is asleep?

[RayvenQ]

"So can I wait while you check it?"

Yeah sure, though you might be here all week.

[bean]

My car has been to the shop 3 or 4 times now for the same problem. I always get it back with a confused look on his face and a "Sorry, I can't figure it out".

Every time, the mechanic can't reproduce it - and I'm not upset with him. Hell I've been going to the same shop for 12 years, all the guy works on is Hondas, and he's honest as hell. It's hard to find a shop like that. He's been working on Hondas since the 70s.

My problem: Sometimes my car decides it hates idling. I'll put in the clutch and it'll either stall or come close to it (it stalled 3 times on my way home from work tonight, pretty much every time I put in the clutch to stop). It always starts right back up and settles into a normal idle, unless I pop the clutch to start it, in which case it goes into a really low idle (I'm talking oil light flickering, tach is nearly on 0 type of idle). It's COMPLETELY random, and when it does act up it usually only does it for a couple of miles (though it once went about an hour of doing this). It runs perfectly fine once you get it above idle when this problem is happening.

The check engine light has only come on once in 3 years of ownership, when the gas cap cracked. The engine computer hasn't stored any codes, and it's a fairly modern car (2001 Honda Accord with 109k miles).

If my mechanic can't find the problem, I'm pretty damn confident nobody can find it (easily at least).

I love modern fuel injection until something really weird goes wrong. There's not even more than a few vacuum lines under the hood of my car. Aside from this it's been the most reliable car I've ever owned, $20 in repairs in 3 years (1 headlight bulb, 1 clock bulb) and under $1000 in maintenance (most of that being the timing belt and water pump at 105k miles). I've never even had to change the brakes and it's still on the original clutch.

[atomicthumbs]

The symptoms make me think it has something to do with the air conditioning. :P

[protege]

I'm sorry protege, it's just Lucas jokes never get old to me.

...and I've heard them all. I've also heard that Lucas himself tried to get Parliament to repeal Ohm's Law...but met with too much resistance...

Seriously though, if you take care of those electrical things, they'll behave themselves. Nearly all of the faults are caused by old wiring and/or dirty terminals. Other faults, were caused by people trying to cut corners. When I first started working on that car, I found some horrible attempts at "repairing" the wiring. Things like soldered connections, new wires let into the harness (with the damaged originals still in place...and with bare ends against the bodywork ), fuses that were rated higher than normal, etc. First thing I did...was rip all that shit out

If done correctly, most Lucas gear usually doesn't give trouble--it's usually when people try to "fix" it, but not knowing what they're doing--is where the trouble starts.

[BookstoreEscapee]

What, you can't crank up the heat in the garage and just fix it already?