Another crack legal mind.

[Dreamstalker]

damn.... what was the look on his face when your mom had to explain to him the difference between "Mexico" and "New Mexico"? holy crap that's ... really wow.

I don't recall the guy's ultimate reaction (it was probably some flavor of embarrassed), but other screeners, airline agents (including the woman who checked me in) and passengers were watching this unfold.

My dad's also had run-ins when trying to order something over the phone: "Sir, we don't ship to Mexico"

The only different is obvioulsy they won't give a liquor ID to someone under 21, but I don't see a reason for the separate Liquor ID since they'd have to check the age anyway.

I don't get it either...I have the plain vanilla non-license ID; according to the RMV* it's valid for every purpose except driving.

* The same agency where I was told, when asking why I wasn't allowed to renew my learner's permit (full-time school at the time so I wasn't able to take lessons and I need a valid permit to do that), was told "oh you can drive, just not legally"...so they seem to be the ones on crack.

[PepperElf]

That's not unique.

http://www.nmmagazine.com/50missing_may10.php
http://www.nmmagazine.com/50missing_june10.php

i weep for humanity

[Jester]

A Massachusetts Liquor ID is a NON-Driver's Licence ID card that you can get if you don't have a license but want ID.

It's an alternate type of ID you can opt to get if you are 21 but do NOT have a drivers' license.

Just a note here: odds are pretty high that such an ID would often be rejected in other States if one were traveling with it, whereas the regular ID would not, or not as often. Something to consider to those who opt for the LID.

I didn't say "if that tourist has an IDP instead"; that would be incorrect. I said "if that tourist also has an IDP", because the IDP is just a translation of the accompanying driver's license.

It might help. It might not. Accompanying ID to verify acceptable ID is generally at the discretion of the bartender, but usually it is used to verify that the person is who the ID says they are, and that they are not using someone else's ID. I.e., if I have an ID that says I am Tom Smith, and the bartender doubts that the picture on the ID is that of me, he may ask me if I have anything else with my name on it, such as a credit card, etc. If I do, then it is unlikely that I am using Tom Smith's ID AND also have a credit card of his or in his name. Not impossible, just unlikly.

However, using secondary non-acceptable ID as a backup for an ID that the bartender cannot understand and/or translate? I would say highly unlikely. Especially because the things we NEED to be able to understand MUST be on the original ID (the fact that it's a driver's license, and that the date we are looking at is their birthday). If we can't understand those on the original ID, well, the IDP is pretty much useless, as does not really verify the original, nor does it translate the words we need translated.

Hppe this all makes sense. I am far more tired than normal for me at this hour.

I wonder if I was the only one who read the title of the thread this way?

Hey, that title works for the people in question just as well, if you ask me!

[Dreamstalker]

Just a note here: odds are pretty high that such an ID would often be rejected in other States if one were traveling with it, whereas the regular ID would not, or not as often. Something to consider to those who opt for the LID.

The RMV website conveniently doesn't mention that...so what's the point? LID always confused me...far as I know, few other states (if any) do this. I once saw someone using it to open an account at my bank; he failed.

[Seshat]

By Driver's Licenses, we are referring to most any driver's licenses, including those from foreign lands. The limitation is we need to be able to understand it.

We have a 'non-driver's card' thing which is state issued, and is intended to be exactly the same as a driver's licence but for people who don't or can't drive.

It looks almost identical, only with the necessary changes to indicate that no, a person with this isn't approved to drive. Including having the holograms, the watermarks, the other anti-counterfeiting measures.

Would that be permitted?

The AAA used to (maybe still does) issue so-called "international drivers licenses", which, when presented together with a valid U.S. license, can be used to drive in other countries, but has no legal standing here in the USA.

We provide "international drivers licences" as well, with the same condition. (Well, replace 'USA' with 'Australia'.)

[PepperElf]

heh. i had to show someone my ID yesterday (NY id)
the hologram (sine wave) on it freaked them out.

[Jester]

The RMV website conveniently doesn't mention that...so what's the point?

To be fair, it is not the RMV's job to educate people about what ID's will work in other states for alcohol purchases. And I would imagine the point of it is that the majority of people who have it are going to be using it in Massachusetts, and not somewhere else. Just saying.

LID always confused me...far as I know, few other states (if any) do this.

I've never heard of it anywhere else.

We have a 'non-driver's card' thing which is state issued, and is intended to be exactly the same as a driver's licence but for people who don't or can't drive.

Would that be permitted?

We provide "international drivers licences" as well, with the same condition. (Well, replace 'USA' with 'Australia'.)

Yes and no. Some states will accept a (U.S.) state-issued ID card, some will only accept ID cards (non-driver's licenses) from the their own state, but DL's from all states.

Since you are in Australia, the answer is a resounding "no." People who have this and no DL should bring their passport if they have any chance of being carded for alcohol.

Does that inconvenience suck? Sure it does. Talk to the Legislature...not a damn thing us bartenders can do about it.

By the way, they DO have a new version of the passport which is actually in the form of a driver's license-sized card. I don't know if it is just a U.S. thing or if all countries are making them now, but they are pretty handy for such situations.

[Beckpatton]

When I first visited the US, and was purchasing booze from the local store, I took my passport for ID, as I figured my Australian drivers licence might not be valid, as it could easily be a fake as far as the operator knew. She actually asked for a licence or something, because she was worried the passport could be fake??

I found it odd, and would have been ready to argue my case if I didnt have my licence on me, but it was right there in my purse, I even commented to her that I figured it would be far easier to forge a fake licence from a foreign country then to make a whole passport, but she just kind of shrugged it off... FYI- I was in the state of New York, right near the Vermont border at the time..

[Jester]

I think that was probably more the cashier than the state's laws.

Now, not trying to get an argument started, but I believe that bartenders and servers get more training about this sort of thing than convenience store clerks. Before anyone jumps on me, the reason I think this is that people tend to work in the former jobs for longer periods of time than the latter jobs. Also, in the food service industry, we actually have people drinking their alcohol purchases on premise, while convenience store employees do not. Additionally, cs employees tend to be younger, as it is not generally a high-paying job, so it tends to be staffed by high schoolers and college students. Obviously, there are exceptions, but these are just some thoughts on the subject.

[Andara Bledin]

We have a 'non-driver's card' thing which is state issued, and is intended to be exactly the same as a driver's licence but for people who don't or can't drive.

It looks almost identical, only with the necessary changes to indicate that no, a person with this isn't approved to drive. Including having the holograms, the watermarks, the other anti-counterfeiting measures.

I know that California has the same. The only difference is the lack of the phrase "Drivers License" and the lack of the phrase "Class C" over the picture.

And, if you have both, they are the same number.

Yes and no. Some states will accept a (U.S.) state-issued ID card, some will only accept ID cards (non-driver's licenses) from the their own state, but DL's from all states.

The idea that a state-issued ID that is virtually identical to a state-issued DL would be denied for only the fact that it's not a full DL baffles me.

^-.-^

[Kogarashi]

The idea that a state-issued ID that is virtually identical to a state-issued DL would be denied for only the fact that it's not a full DL baffles me.

^-.-^

Baffles me too, but then so does the idea that some states will only take non-driver IDs from their own state, when they're (in my limited experience) generally the same make and from the same department. ::

UT's non-driver IDs look like the DLs, except that they're rotated 90 degrees (portrait layout rather than landscape), and have "Identification Card" next to the state name. There are probably a couple other minor details I'm forgetting too.

[KiaKat]

When I first visited the US, and was purchasing booze from the local store, I took my passport for ID, as I figured my Australian drivers licence might not be valid, as it could easily be a fake as far as the operator knew. She actually asked for a licence or something, because she was worried the passport could be fake??

I found it odd, and would have been ready to argue my case if I didnt have my licence on me, but it was right there in my purse, I even commented to her that I figured it would be far easier to forge a fake licence from a foreign country then to make a whole passport, but she just kind of shrugged it off... FYI- I was in the state of New York, right near the Vermont border at the time..

I think that was probably more the cashier than the state's laws.

Definitely. AFAIK, NY has the same laws as Florida. If we can understand it and prove that it's real, we can take state-issued ID (passport, DL, military). I've rejected foreign DL's before for not being in English and not understandable. Mostly Eastern European ones, for not having any sort of description - just a set of lines, each numbered, with different info on each line.

Now, not trying to get an argument started, but I believe that bartenders and servers get more training about this sort of thing than convenience store clerks. Before anyone jumps on me, the reason I think this is that people tend to work in the former jobs for longer periods of time than the latter jobs. Also, in the food service industry, we actually have people drinking their alcohol purchases on premise, while convenience store employees do not. Additionally, cs employees tend to be younger, as it is not generally a high-paying job, so it tends to be staffed by high schoolers and college students. Obviously, there are exceptions, but these are just some thoughts on the subject.

Interesting thoughts, and I think I agree. One of my problems here at the store is that we have so many p/t staff members that I just can't keep them all educated on the laws. Half the time they defer to me, which is a problem when I'm distracted by another customer.

Baffles me too, but then so does the idea that some states will only take non-driver IDs from their own state, when they're (in my limited experience) generally the same make and from the same department. ::

UT's non-driver IDs look like the DLs, except that they're rotated 90 degrees (portrait layout rather than landscape), and have "Identification Card" next to the state name. There are probably a couple other minor details I'm forgetting too.

I know exactly why that wouldn't be accepted. Most states are switching over to having under-21 ID's as portrait rather than landscape. I can guarantee having a portrait ID here in NY wouldn't get you booze.

I find myself constantly telling my foreign customers to bring their passports. That I can't accept their DL's or ID's because I can't verify the legitimacy. Drives me *nuts* when they argue it. Thank $DEITY for the signs we have hung up.

[Kogarashi]

I know exactly why that wouldn't be accepted. Most states are switching over to having under-21 ID's as portrait rather than landscape. I can guarantee having a portrait ID here in NY wouldn't get you booze.

I find myself constantly telling my foreign customers to bring their passports. That I can't accept their DL's or ID's because I can't verify the legitimacy. Drives me *nuts* when they argue it. Thank $DEITY for the signs we have hung up.

Fair enough, though at least on mine, you would be able to see I'm old enough (hypothetically; I don't drink) if you just checked the birthdate. But that's a decent explanation for why.

But if you're not from the US and visiting, why wouldn't you have your passport anyway? ::curious:: And since passports are valid....

[Dave1982]

But if you're not from the US and visiting, why wouldn't you have your passport anyway? ::curious:: And since passports are valid....

Because if you manage to lose it, replacing it while abroad is - to say the least - a colossal pain in the ass.

[Kogarashi]

Because if you manage to lose it, replacing it while abroad is - to say the least - a colossal pain in the ass.

True, true. I can only imagine. ::wince::