Pass the baby; I need to buy cigarettes!

[Gizmo]

I just think there is a major lack of consistency at our local Asda

There is a total lack of consistency. They have no set rule except Challenge 25 but as I said above they don't give us a run down of who to challenge and who not to. This totally frustrated me as I would have liked not only a standard of "we do/don't challenge {situation}" but also a tiny bit of time spent on "what does 25 look like".

/since I was Christmas help its possible that the their permanent employees do get more training but I doubt it.

[Jester]

That's why I said minimum fine. It might be more in a bar or liquor store, but since I don't work in those places, I really couldn't say. And it might not seem much to you, but since I currently live from hand to mouth, it's far too much for me to be able to afford right now.

Oh, it still would be a lot for me. Just not as much as the monster fines I'd be looking at here for the same offense. And the fines I was referring to are, if I understand it correctly, for anyone who sells to an underaged person, be it a retail store, restaurant, or bar.

[Kogarashi]

Oh, it still would be a lot for me. Just not as much as the monster fines I'd be looking at here for the same offense. And the fines I was referring to are, if I understand it correctly, for anyone who sells to an underaged person, be it a retail store, restaurant, or bar.

Correct. When I was cashiering at Walmart, the fine was $1500 for selling alcohol or cigarettes to underage people. So if some 16-year-old manages to get through my line and buy a pack of cigarettes and I'm caught out on it, I'm out a job and I get to pay the $1500, and I'm nowhere near a bar setting. As steep as the fines around here are, I'm surprised more of my fellow cashiers in this area aren't sticklers for it.

[PatchO'Black]

Oh, lord. It's time to break out that song yet again. But this is the new and improved song. Not only does it have the new third verse I added last time, but I have added TWO more verses this time. JUST because I can, damn it!

THE ID SONG

[to the tune of "If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands]

Ah! This is obviously the version of "Show I.D." from the upcoming Broadway show "Jester: The Musical". Get your tickets now!

Also, regarding "inconstancy" in British markets asking for I.D., like Jester, I'm not overly familiar with British law, but I will say this: If there is a law saying one needs to show a certain form of I.D. as proof of age to purchase something, then I say one should presume that it will be asked for, even if the store/bar/etc has been lax in the pass.

Personally, I would be a bit suspect of a place that didn't follow the law. After all, if they aren't concerned about underage drinking and such, they might not consider other rules such as "food safety laws" important ether...

[bainsidhe]

In my state, there's the chance one could be fined up to ten grand. Not that one would be, just that one could be. Guess who was beyond-anal when it came to carding people?

And yes, I did have one very pregnant woman rant and rave because I carded both her and her husband/friend/whatever. It's true that he was the one paying for the beer, but they were both youngish-looking and I'd already asked for ID before ever seeing her tummy. Once the words "May I see your ID please" leave my lips, I'm not taking them back. Once you start second-guessing yourself, you start to make mistakes. I'm not going to make a ten thousand dollar mistake, thank you.

[Caractacus_Potts]

So my point is, I'm not saying the law is wrong, but where is the difference between me and my mum and my friend and her partner?

Not 100% sure but I think here in the US at least one state has gone to legally requiring ID for anyone of any age purchasing alcohol and a law like that is the only way you won't get inconsistencies because it is no longer up to the point of sale employees personal judgment. Judgment calls on when to decide "parent and child" and when to decide "card all or no sale" are even more ambiguous.

QFT, QFE. There are too many who are addicted to cigs and alcohol who won't quit just because something like a pregnancy happens.

A local paper did a story about a residential road repair with the residents upset at the noise and disruption (not where I live, something I read about). One of the residents interviewed was photographed in front of her house for the article. She was very obviously pregnant, standing in front of her door and smoking a cigarette.

There was such a response to the photo that the paper did a follow up with the woman. She said she was afraid that the NOISE was going to give her baby a birth defect and vowed to sue the city if that happened (not sure if that was in the original or the follow up). In the follow up when confronted about smoking while pregnant and birth defects she was quoted as saying her mother smoked two packs a day and SHE turned out fine so if her baby is born with a defect it's because of the noise.

[Kogarashi]

There was such a response to the photo that the paper did a follow up with the woman. She said she was afraid that the NOISE was going to give her baby a birth defect and vowed to sue the city if that happened (not sure if that was in the original or the follow up). In the follow up when confronted about smoking while pregnant and birth defects she was quoted as saying her mother smoked two packs a day and SHE turned out fine so if her baby is born with a defect it's because of the noise.

It was mentioned on Snopes, which is where I saw it. The original is what contained her statement that she thought the noise might harm her baby, all while chugging on a cigarette. Cue WTF moment.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Last night had a guy ranting and raving about being carded, cuz he was twenty two. He said that about fifty times, while saying in a "You are stupid!" voice that the law said no under eighteens. My collegue and I patiently pointed out that we work under Think 25 and it only takes one Trading Standards officer in the queue to ruin things for both of us, should we not ID someone who looked under twenty five, like himself.

I've even had a girl scream at me, "I bet you bought cigarettes underage!" as justification for why I should serve her when she didn't have ID. Why yes, I did in fact; however, that was then, this is now, and the laws are a lot stricter so give me your ID or get lost, bitch.

[Jester]

As steep as the fines around here are, I'm surprised more of my fellow cashiers in this area aren't sticklers for it.

I have seen many bartenders and servers, both in this town and elsewhere, who are not that stickly about carding. Considering the several mandatory seminars each year that almost every establishment down here runs for their employees that beat into their skulls what the potential consequences could be, I am actually somewhat surprised by this. But some are clearly lazy, some clearly don't care, some clearly don't think THEY could ever fuck up or be the subject of a sting, and some are probably just sick of getting browbeaten by people they have carded.

Years ago when I worked at the brewpub, one of my coworkers actually said to me that he did not card because he did not want to lose the tip. My response was that I would gladly give up a ten, twenty dollar tip to avoid a $2,000 fine, thank you very much.

Personally, I would be a bit suspect of a place that didn't follow the law. After all, if they aren't concerned about underage drinking and such, they might not consider other rules such as "food safety laws" important ether...

I wouldn't be. Because a lot of times, it is the individual that is being lax, rather than the establishment. Also, people view different rules differently, and the potential consequences differently. If you don't follow food safety laws, it is likely that your boss is going to yell at you. If you don't card someone, it is likely that they won't yell at you. Cause, meet effect.

I patiently pointed out that we work under Think 25

I love when people ask, "Do I really look like I'm under 21?" No. No, you don't. But, if you look 30 or under, we are supposed to ask for your ID. What I don't explain to them, which should be blatantly fucking obvious (but so clearly isn't to so many people) is that people can look under 21 and be over, and look over 21 and be under. I don't look 40--I look younger. My friend Frank doesn't look his age...he looks older. People vary. Which is why we card anyone we think looks 30 or less. If you are one of those people, and you are over 21 (or for that matter, over 30), congratulations on your winning the Genetics Lottery.

Now shut the fuck up and show me your ID, assmunch.

I've even had a girl scream at me, "I bet you bought cigarettes underage!" as justification for why I should serve her when she didn't have ID. Why yes, I did in fact; however, that was then, this is now, and the laws are a lot stricter so give me your ID or get lost, bitch.

I bought alcohol before I was 21. That was a combination of things, from lax or careless employees to my own cunning nature to a brief fling with a fake ID, etc, etc. But one thing has nothing to do with the other. Hell, I'll go out drinking with people I know are 20*, and if the bartenders aren't carding them properly, it's their own damn fault.

None of this means I am going to put my ass on the line so that someone who may or may not be of age can buy alcohol. Hell, I won't put my ass on the line like that for someone I know and like....why would I do it for a stranger?

*I have told the aforementioned 20 year old that, while I will go drinking with her, I absolutely will not serve her at my establishment, and also, that she damn well better not try to drink at my establishment even if I am not there, as I do not want her putting my coworkers in jeopardy. She understands this and has no problem with it.)

[blas]

I didn't get carded on my 21st birthday at the liquor store.

Believe you me, I was seeing red.

[PatchO'Black]

I wouldn't be. Because a lot of times, it is the individual that is being lax, rather than the establishment. Also, people view different rules differently, and the potential consequences differently. If you don't follow food safety laws, it is likely that your boss is going to yell at you. If you don't card someone, it is likely that they won't yell at you. Cause, meet effect.

Well, I was think more along the lines of that, no matter who was serving you, the restaurant (or store) is lax regarding asking for I.D. You are quite correct that it is by no means certain that because they fail to follow one rule, they won't follow others. Still, it may be worth considering.

[Caractacus_Potts]

I didn't get carded on my 21st birthday at the liquor store.

Believe you me, I was seeing red.

On my 21st birthday I went into a liquor store and bought a six pack of beer. I was sorely disappointed that I did not get carded.

After leaving I realized that I had forgotten to buy a pack of cigarettes and the CVS was closer to my car than the liquor store so I went there. I was carded for the cigarettes, the cashier wished me a happy birthday and I told her about going to the liquor store next door and not getting carded for beer.

That was the first and last time I was ever carded for cigarettes in my life. On my 21st birthday.

[Jester]

Well, I was think more along the lines of that, no matter who was serving you, the restaurant (or store) is lax regarding asking for I.D.

I disagree. I have worked at places that are very keen on their staff asking for ID, and beat it into their staff's heads. That does not always translate, however, into the staff actually DOING that. I am sure the same is true at many establishments, from bars to liquor stores to convenience stores.

[Kogarashi]

Seriously, what is it with people not being prepared with ID for things?

There are a few threads on the forums for the con I just attended recently where people are griping because the convention wouldn't accept their temporary paper IDs from wherever as valid ID to get into the 18+ events. Usually it's complaints that the legit ID hasn't come in the mail yet, but the paper is supposed to be perfectly valid (one guy even claimed it was a federal requirement to accept the temporary paper ID for such things). The ID policy is listed plainly in several places on the convention's website, and the convention dates are posted at least a year in advance, so it strikes me that people really have no excuse.

[PatchO'Black]

I disagree. I have worked at places that are very keen on their staff asking for ID, and beat it into their staff's heads. That does not always translate, however, into the staff actually DOING that. I am sure the same is true at many establishments, from bars to liquor stores to convenience stores.

Oh, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that it is a "sure sign" or anything like that. What I was trying to say was that, if a place seems generally lax in following that rule, repeatedly, no matter who was on-staff, then one might want to consider that it is possible that they are lax regarding other rules and regulations.

However, if you say that, in your experience, this is unlikely, I'll take your word for it, as you have more first-hand experience.

Perhaps such insights will be included in your new book, Jester: The Man, The Myth, The Legend?