Going the extra mile...why it's a bad idea

[depechemodefan]

first story.

Me =
iw = idiot woman

iw comes up to me with a cd rom from one of our "do it yourself legal...." type books.

iw: Can you make a copy of this? They did it before for me.
me: Um, we don't have cd burners on our computer.
iw: well, they were able to copy it for me before.
me: when was this and who was it? Also, if you want me to try this you need to bring me a cd to copy to.
iw: they didn't ask me for a cd before, they just copied what I need. It was a form for opening a day care center (note, I can't remember exactly what form she wanted, but I think that is what it was for)
me: oh, they opened a form and copied it for you. I'm sorry, we don't do that, but you can reserve a computer, load the disc, and download the form and print it out.
iw: but they copied it, and I paid for it.
me: let me show you how to reserve a computer. You have your library card?
iw: yes. Last time though my friend was on a (public) computer and he let me use it.
me: well, we can log you in with your library card then when it's your turn I can help you open the file and you can print it out.
iw: I don't have time to wait. Last time you were goijng to close in 30 min. and I didn't have time to wait and they did it on the librarian's computer.
me: right now it's 1pm, so you have plenty of time to wait.
iw: I'll just make a copy of the example form in the book and then white-out the written-in part.

Really, can't she make up her mind? either her friend the last tiem let her use the computer he was on or else we let her use our computer because we are closing in 30 min. The other thing is we did all the work last time, and of course she lost the print-out. When we do the work for people they don't appreciate it and lose the work, then come back to us to do it for them again. She was polite at least.

Second story.
me =
sc = sucky customer, who had to bring in the Lord into this transaction,

SC calls us, wanting a dvd of the pact/pack. I finally got it clear that it was the pack. She says she gets this every year for her class.
I go to the first floor, and get the dvd, which I noticed on the back "each purchase helps PBS bring quality programs...." or something like that. I'm thinking, "wow, if this woman bought this dvd, not only she did't have to call us every year for it, she would help bring quality programming to PBS.
me: ok, I have the dvd, can I have your card number?
sc: I don't have my card with me. They just ask for my name.
me: but every year you ask for this, and every year we ask for your card. It makes it easier on us if you had your card.
sc: My name is....also, do you have any other dvds on x?
me: yes, you can come to the first floor and look in our dvd collection and find many different dvds (her request was some broad topic and I wasn't going to spend my time guessing if she would like something or not. It's not hard to browse the section when she is here, since she is coming here anyway)
sc: ok, I have to tell you, I left my purse in my car with my library card, that is why I don't have it and I never had to give my number before, just my name.
me: again, it makes it harder for us, since we can't attach your number to the dvd, and if someone took your dvd, we wouldn't have a record to show it's on hold for you.
sc: it's not what you said it was how you said it. blah blah blah.
me: ok, well next time remember to have your card with you.
sc: well you have a blessed day, and may the Lord keep you and guide you....
me: *hangs up*

I looked up her account with her name and noticed her card expired. Oh well, if she bothered to tell me her card number I would have looked it up, and told her it was expired. Hope she bothers to bring her id with her to update her card info.

[Ironclad Alibi]

I looked up her account with her name and noticed her card expired. Oh well, if she bothered to tell me her card number I would have looked it up, and told her it was expired. Hope she bothers to bring her id with her to update her card info.

"What do you mean it's expired? No one ever told me it was expired before."

[bainsidhe]

The way she was first asking you to copy things made me wonder about copyright issues. Matter of fact, the same may apply to photocopying and whiting out a page from the book.

[Librarian]

The way she was first asking you to copy things made me wonder about copyright issues. Matter of fact, the same may apply to photocopying and whiting out a page from the book.

Taking a photocopy out of a book in the library is fine: we charge more for it than any copycenter and the extra goes to some form of organisation that re-distributes it between authors.
I'm not sure on the exact workings, but i do know (over here) if you photocopy something in the library, copyrights aren't violated.

[Comechatcha]

Taking a photocopy out of a book in the library is fine: we charge more for it than any copycenter and the extra goes to some form of organisation that re-distributes it between authors.
I'm not sure on the exact workings, but i do know (over here) if you photocopy something in the library, copyrights aren't violated.

I think it depends on the percentage of the work you use? So much is 'fair use,' but you still can't copy every page of a book for example. But I don't have it in front of me, so don't quote me on it.

[EricKei]

IANAL, but, when a book explicitly has pages containing forms which are meant to be filled out and sent in, they will usually have special wording on or near those pages which allows them to be copied without violations. E.g.: Some older RPG books I've played have an appendix of blank character sheets in the back that explicitly state words to the effect of "Permission is granted to photocopy these sheets for personal use".

edit: tangential thought: ...So, this lady *knowingly leaves her purse in the car* so often that she considers this behavior to be normal?! Makes me wonder how often her car's been broken into...?_?

[camjuniper]

Photocopier is an awful type of patron. You do it for me or I don't want it at all. I used to get computer questions like that all the time. You fix someone's spacing for them once and they think you're around to reformat three years worth of "accounting" kept in an excel spreadsheet. So learned my lesson there. Now I do what you do: walk 'em through it, but make them do it!

Ugh. No card number. I really dislike that. And the people who think I can look it up by phone number. No, we're not the grocery store and this is not your rewards card. I can do it by your name but I will make you verify just about all your information because there were seventeen Smith, Johns in the system.

[AccountingDrone]

Photocopier is an awful type of patron. You do it for me or I don't want it at all. I used to get computer questions like that all the time. You fix someone's spacing for them once and they think you're around to reformat three years worth of "accounting" kept in an excel spreadsheet. So learned my lesson there. Now I do what you do: walk 'em through it, but make them do it!

That happened with someone I game with - he had a workbook with 4 spreadsheets he needed to merge some info from for a new spreadsheet, I gave up trying to walk him through it and just went and did it myself, now he always wants me to do excel work for him ... Finally had to have my corp CEO tell him to learn to do it himself as my play time is limited and he really needs to either learn his corp job or give it to someone who can do the excel work [we build capital ships and logistics is a major part of getting the production finished economically. It sucks to have to stop production to go mine more minerals to make some stupid subsystems...]

[I should probably just bite the bullet and put in a week or so making a master workbook with each ships requirements laid out individually instead of the way it is now.]

[Librarian]

I think it depends on the percentage of the work you use? So much is 'fair use,' but you still can't copy every page of a book for example. But I don't have it in front of me, so don't quote me on it.

Aye, think it's something like that. But tbh, our prices are set high enough to discourage anyone taking more copies than absolutely needed - it's often cheaper to buy the book than to copy even half of it.

[protege]

But tbh, our prices are set high enough to discourage anyone taking more copies than absolutely needed - it's often cheaper to buy the book than to copy even half of it.

Depends on the book. I know that some train books are annoyingly expensive...simply because they have never been reprinted. Yanosey's Penn Central Power comes to mind, as does Three feet on the panhandle: A history of the Waynesburg and Washington Railroad. Both have been out of print 20 and nearly 30 years already. When copies of both books show up--even ones that are held together with tape--they're usually expensive. I got damn lucky to find a mint copy of PC Power some years ago for less than $100.

As for the other book...the least-expensive copy I found...was still over $200! Otherwise, the sole copy I saw, was in a library, and wasn't available for circulation. Sorry, but $200 for a train book isn't happening. Even if it does have full-size model plans in it, I can't justify that sort of cost. When I came across another copy (again, in a library), the only answer was to copy the book. At the time, I had access to a full-service copy center. I hated to do that, but if I needed the information, it was the only way.

[Librarian]

Fair point protege. I don't think my particular library has such valuable books though. And imho, a photocopy of a book you really like isn't the same :P From what i've seen, people tend to just copy the bits of information they need (schoolwork, one particular recipe or pattern...)

[Rapscallion]

I think it depends on the percentage of the work you use? So much is 'fair use,' but you still can't copy every page of a book for example. But I don't have it in front of me, so don't quote me on it.

'Fair use' - the best description I've heard of this is that it's a defence, not an actual law. If you go into a court situation, it's up to a jury of your peers, or someone trained to sit in judgement, to decide whether it was reasonable or not to use.

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyrigh...pter9/9-a.html

In short, don't rely on it. It's why we like people to link articles, rather than copy and paste news posts onto here.

Rapscallion

[depechemodefan]

As I understand copyright issues, you can't copy a whole book. You can copy pieces of it. What you copy you can't sell.

Lot of times people want a copy of a form, like the lady in the first story. The form was in a cd-rom that was in a book we bought from a publisher. I figure the publisher is ok with people making copies because the publisher sold it to a library. If the publisher didn't want the library to have the book so people can make copies instead of buying the book, then the publisher wouldn't sell it to us. Like the people at Rosetta Stone who don't sell their cds and books/sell the use of their website to libraries because they know people are going to use it for free from the library.

also, when people want us to copy articles from the newspapers, we always stamp the article with a stamp that says, "Notice: this material may be protected by copyright law." Though we don't do it for obits.

But this is just info. I go by. You should see the a-holes who sit at a table next to our music cds and burn all day cds onto their laptops. I hope they arn't selling or sharing what they burned/downloaded.

[Librarian]

To satisfy my curiousity: I looked up local law

private use: copies allowed for private use - this copy may NOT be given to a third party. May be used for study, leisure, practice... So it's fine to photocopy a recipe and use it at home, not OK to pass that copy on to your mum for example.

Citation use: (parts of) works may be used as citations, as long as the source is clearly visible, and the used part contributes to the new original work. May also be used for announcements...

There are also some extra laws/rules for schools and educational purposes.

Edited to add:
For private use, law does NOT give a "max nr of pages" or anything likewise, so it looks like copying an entire book is actually legal. Didn't know!
It may not be for commercial use, it's strictly personal and the number of copies is limited - but as in one full book = one copy.