You won't stand behind your product!

[PepperElf]

Yes, I heard the classic phrase today. "You won't stand behind your product!"


Thankfully I didn't have to deal with him... I just heard the conversation as I worked in another area.

Customer came in with a computer that was burning up... to the point that it was apparently smoking. We wouldn't exchange his 6 month old computer for a new one because it looked like it had some kind of virus or suspicious software on it.


Yes we know it's smoking. But it also has suspicious software (probably a virus).
Yes we know you have a warranty with us. But that warranty is for hardware only.
Yes we know your hardware is burning up now. But that CAN be a side effect of your virus.



I'm not sure what he ended up doing. I think he was just pissed that he couldn't make us replace it for him.

[Shalom]

How does a virus cause a computer to overheat?

As far as I can see, the worst it could do would be to run the CPU to 100% and keep it there, and the fans on the CPU and power supply ought to be capable of handling that indefinitely, or there's something wrong with the design. (Unless you want to postulate that the virus hacked into the BIOS and screwed around with the settings; overclocked the CPU or shut the fans down altogether, something like that. Which should also be impossible, and if it isn't, that's a design flaw as well.) The "HCF" opcode hasn't been implemented literally as far as I know.

I'm reminded of an old SF novel, "Emergence" by David Palmer. There was one bit in there that made suspension of disbelief rather hard: after the fall of civilization, one of the few survivors was blocked from traveling across several rivers (e.g. Hudson, Susquehanna) due to bridges "loaded beyond the designer's worst nightmares" (I believe those were his exact words) having collapsed when the entire population of the Northeast USA tried to escape by car. Palmer apparently doesn't live in this area, because I've been on bridges (e.g. the George Washington) during rush hour when every lane on the bridge was wall to wall, and they haven't collapsed yet. The Brooklyn Bridge routinely handles three times the weight it was designed for in 1883, and it's still there too. I don't think you can drive enough cars onto a bridge to collapse it, and if you could, it'd've happened already.

[ITboykc]

Yes, Shalom is right. I have worked with computers for many years (in IT in various places, and trust me, I've seen some nasty infestations/failures.) Viruses/malware typically do not cause hardware failure. They guy was right, there was some sort of flaw with the physical machine. I probably would not have been too happy either.

If I was him I would have told them to exchange the hardware and swap the Hard Drive, though, it sounds like the store was pretty convinced that the virus/malware was the cause of the hardware failure...

[PepperElf]

That's what they suggested. Some nasty programs out there will over-clock your CPU and mess with your temperature regulation inside the computer in order to pretty much burn it up.

That was pretty much why the guy wasn't going to walk away with a brand new computer.

The fact it was past the return date wasn't exactly an issue... Sometimes they'll authorize a return outside of the return date if they really feel the customer got shafted on the purchase and it's a hardware only issue.


But they're not going to do it when it looks like both hardware and a virus.

As one of them said, "You can't just get a new computer every time you get a virus." And after the customer left he likened it to buying a new car, having the baby throw up in it, and then trying to return it for smelling like baby puke.


I don't know if the customer heard them say that... he might have to be honest. I do admit my coworkers are kinda bad about that when they're very upset. (which is also why I kept my mouth shut and just listened to the convo instead of joining in).

[EricKei]

While I haven't heard of any infections in years, "burner" viruses used to be out there in notable, but not overwhelming numbers (I've seen the aftermath of a few of these in person). What they do is to disable the throttle control on hard drives and/or optical drives -- the net result is that they will speed up but never slow down nor stop spinning, getting faster and faster until they overheat and either simply melt or actually catch fire.

While I've not seen it myself, I can certainly see someone applying that basic concept to CPU's, as well. Disable the fans, disable any onboard thermal shutdown failsafe mechanisms, set the clock multiplier to whatever the board's maximum is, and *foom* melty gooey goodness. Some programs can even OC the CPU via windows-based software that is provided by the board manufacturers themselves. ASUS ships such software with some of their boards.

[Andara Bledin]

What they do is to disable the throttle control on hard drives and/or optical drives -- the net result is that they will speed up but never slow down nor stop spinning, getting faster and faster until they overheat and either simply melt or actually catch fire.

Or explode.

Well, technically a disk left in an optical drive will shatter, and in some cases that will propel disk shrapnel out of the case.

^-.-^

[Kogarashi]

A virus being able to overclock the CPU and tamper with fan speeds (even to the point of shutting them off) doesn't seem too far-fetched to me. After all, there are legit monitoring programs that can be used to adjust those settings, so what's to stop virii from doing it too?

[Gizmo]

Isn't there a few games out at the moment that were overclocking machines and starting to burn them out? I'm thinking L4D2 or something?

I've burnt out two Laptops due to using them for gaming when they really weren't up to it and I'd never expect it to be the manufacturer/retailers fault.

[barainga]

There are a ton of things that can cause a computer to over heat. I have heard of viruses able to do the job, but most likely he put it in a bad location with no positive air flow or it was really really dusty. In some cases some one will over clock the thing thinking they are the haxxor l33t.

[Hyndis]

Could also be bad caps in the power supply. Its rare but it can happen. You get a busted cap and it can make a horrendous smell and even cause smoke, but its generally not actually dangerous.

[PepperElf]

Yeah, if it was only hardware there wouldn't have been an issue really.

The main problem was that he apparently wanted it exchanged for a new computer... but since it had "suspicious software" on it, that part wasn't covered by the store warranty.

[EricKei]

I really do hate the thread title's expression anyway -- these comps aren't the STORE'S product, they're the manufacturer's. The store is just reselling them, and has nothing to do with the quality of the goods presented.

[Kogarashi]

Very good point, EricKei. Why do these SCs never pull the "won't stand behind the product" line on the actual manufacturers?

[Hyndis]

Very good point, EricKei. Why do these SCs never pull the "won't stand behind the product" line on the actual manufacturers?

I work for one of those manufacturers, and believe me, they do pull that line on us.

And we do stand behind our products.






For 3 years (the warranty period of the product).

[Kogarashi]

For 3 years (the warranty period of the product).

I stand corrected.