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  • Threats, Tantrums and Theft Taunts

    Ok, this isn't my story, but my younger sister's. She now works for the same company I escaped from left just over a year ago.

    There are two branches of this store in my town, literally just down the road from one another. Today, both stores had the stock-takers in. The stock-take began at 5:30am this morning, and as a result a sign was put on the door of both stores saying that instead of opening at their usual 8am, they would be opening between 8:30 and 9am. Most people accepted this without a fuss. One man, however, did not.

    He arrived at my sister's store around 8:20am, and proceeded to have a massive hissy fit because the store wasn't open yet. He screamed through the door, made threats and swore at the staff (with the exception of three males, the staff comprised of young women). He then went up to the other store and did the same thing. Then he came back down and repeated his tirade at my sister's store (it's literally a 2 minute walk between the two), and went back up to the other store and did the same.

    After about half an hour, my sister's manager called the police. Once they told the man that they'd called the police he left, threatening to steal the baskets that are stacked outside the doors. Surprise surprise, when they finally got the store open to the public, he didn't come in and buy anything.

    The worst thing is the police didn't even come. Several people were being repeatedly threatened by someone and the police didn't come out. Apparently, when the store called the police once before because of a violent customer, the manager was told that the police had more important things to do than come out to them. Did I mention the police station is a 5 minute walk away?

    Thankfully, nobody was hurt. Seriously, who has a half hour tantrum and wanders between two stores threatening people for the best part of half an hour because a discount store is late opening?

  • #2
    i guess they figured he wasn't a threat since the doors were locked.

    but that means all he has to do is wait for you to open...


    Comment


    • #3
      Like medics the police triage.

      If the man is a threat then they'll appear.

      If you're in a locked building he's not a threat by shouting at you.

      If he's gone he's again no longer a threat.

      It would be interesting to hear what the person who rang said to the call handler.
      A PSA, if I may, as well as another.

      Comment


      • #4
        Quoth crazylegs View Post
        Like medics the police triage.

        If the man is a threat then they'll appear.

        If you're in a locked building he's not a threat by shouting at you.

        If he's gone he's again no longer a threat.

        It would be interesting to hear what the person who rang said to the call handler.
        My sister doesn't know what was said to the police, all she knows is that the police were called and didn't come. He was shouting and swearing in a public place, which is a public order offence in the UK as he was causing a disturbance in an area where the public would be, so they ought to have come out for that at least, if not the threats. Judging by their attitude when the manager asked them to come because a customer was being violent to the staff though, I wouldn't hold my breath.

        The link to public order offences, if anyone is interested: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/p...rder_offences/ (his behaviour comes under Section 5)

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm aware of S. 5 POA

          If the calltaker asked the person who rang "are you feeling threatened?" and the phoner replied 'no' then you can see why the response was what it was.

          Police response is based entirely on what is being told to them - with the incident with the violent male as well

          Compare these two sentences

          "I'm witnessing an assault, it's happening right now and I'm afraid I'm going to be next"

          with

          "There's a man here, he's just pushed someone else"

          Both can be used to describe the same situation, which do you think is going to be graded higher? I'm not suggesting lying to the police (that would be a very bad thing) but ensuring they have all the relevant information is key.
          A PSA, if I may, as well as another.

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh yeah, I completely agree with that I just think that seeing as he was shouting and swearing in a public place the police should have come and dealt with him.

            Comment


            • #7
              I keep envisioning the beginning scenes of Die Hard where John sets of the detonators at the plaza to get the police's attention.

              It sucks that the cops didn't take the situation seriously. Instead of exaggerating a situation the next time, maybe go down to the station and talk to someone in charge over what's needed for them to respond. Can you take matters in to your own hands and use force or restraint on the guy threatening to steal those hand baskets? Would you be liable then or would it be justifiable? See what they say.
              Last edited by emax4; 05-02-2012, 02:00 PM. Reason: changed "Stun gun" to "force or restraint"

              Comment


              • #8
                Quoth crazylegs
                In a perfect world though the fuzz would have rocked up, especially with the station so close, if nothing more than to move him on.
                If only it was a perfect world I'm just glad nobody got hurt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Quoth Miss_Stress View Post
                  Oh yeah, I completely agree with that I just think that seeing as he was shouting and swearing in a public place the police should have come and dealt with him.
                  Ah, the mere act of swearing in a public place isn't itself cause for a breach of the POA - a person must be harassed, alarmed or distressed; if that test isn't met (again it all falls down to what the calltaker was told) then there may have been no breach of the law. You can breach S.5 without swearing (for example Westboro Church would breach the POA but they don't use profanity) and you can swear in public without being arrested (think about all the football chants that swear). With the POA context is everything

                  In a perfect world though the fuzz would have rocked up, especially with the station so close, if nothing more than to move him on.

                  Quoth emax4 View Post
                  Can you take matters in to your own hands and use force or restraint on the guy threatening to steal those hand baskets? Would you be liable then or would it be justifiable? See what they say.
                  In a word, no.

                  The Police & Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) allows an 'any person' arrest (colloquially known as a citizens arrest). However PACE only allows an arrest where an arrestable offence has, or is occurring - only a Constable may arrest where there are reasonable grounds to suspect that an offence *may* occur.

                  In this instance the man saying he will steal the baskets is reasonable grounds to suspect the offence may occur, him walking off with them is grounds to believe an offence has occurred.

                  Does that help any?
                  A PSA, if I may, as well as another.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I apologize and should have been clearer. I was suggesting that the OP go down to the station and ask the officers, "Can I use physical restraint on the guy if he starts to steal our property?" instead of me asking the OP "Are you allowed to do this or that?". The info you replied is VERY helpful though, esp for other posts in similar situations.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Quoth Miss_Stress View Post
                      I'm just glad nobody got hurt.
                      Absolutely

                      If you drill down through this link to your local area http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/saferneighbourhoods you should find the name of the Sgt of your local policing area. Give him/her a ring and explain what happened & ask for an explanation. Should help to prevent this from happening again as well.
                      A PSA, if I may, as well as another.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To Miss Stress, and others, I'd like to direct you to a blog I've followed for a bit: Inspector Gadget. It is written by a fellow inside the UK police system, and is pretty eye-opening to how street-level policemen in the UK are becoming jaded and bitter over how they're treated.

                        From what I've read over the last few months, there's a good chance they just didn't have the manpower to respond.
                        The Rich keep getting richer because they keep doing what it was that made them rich. Ditto the Poor.
                        "Hy kan tell dey is schmot qvestions, dey is makink my head hurt."
                        Hoc spatio locantur.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quoth emax4 View Post
                          I keep envisioning the beginning scenes of Die Hard where John sets of the detonators at the plaza to get the police's attention.
                          As a connoisseur of "Die Hard," that's not how he got the police's attention. He started by trying to call out-- but the phones where he was weren't hooked up. Then he got a radio and tried calling out on the open police band, was ignored by the operator, who told him the band was for emergencies only ("No f**king sh*t, lady! Do I sound like I'm ordering a pizza?!") until they heard gunfire. Then Hans' people posed as building security and got the 911 call canceled, but they sent Sgt. Al Powell to check it out anyway.

                          Powell didn't see anything while checking out the lobby, and didn't call for backup until McClane dropped a body on his car. ("Welcome to the party, pal!") The police still didn't take things too seriously until Gruber contacted them, and then the SWAT team was getting taken apart by the entrenched bad guys. THAT'S when McClane dropped the C4 down the elevator shaft.




                          Yes, I've seen "Die Hard" a lot. It's one of those movies that, whenever I'm flipping channels, I will ALWAYS end up stopping and watching the rest of the movie, no matter where it is.
                          PWNADE(TM) - Serve up a glass today! | PWNZER - An act of pwnage so awesome, it's like the victim got hit by a tank.

                          There are only Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse because I choose to walk!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Quoth Geek King View Post
                            Inspector Gadget. It is written by a fellow inside the UK police system, and is pretty eye-opening to how street-level policemen in the UK are becoming jaded and bitter over how they're treated.
                            Not only are the posts worth a read but so are the comments, they're normally pretty informative as well.
                            A PSA, if I may, as well as another.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks Geek King and crazylegs

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