"Get yourself fired for me! Come on, help a friend out!"

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I don't go to the bars often, but when I do I don't always get carded. Even though I make a point of having my ID in hand when ordering alcohol.

Shit, the bowling alley never carded me. Just handed me my glass of beer in exchange for my two bucks.

[Pixilated]

No I didn't know him at all. But he did say "one friend to another" which is why I put it in the title.

So ... help out a friend whom you're only now meeting for the first time???

Wow. Either he is in the Top Ten Megalomaniac EWs of All Time ... or he really was a 'sting'. Either way, congrats on your handling of the situation!

Heck, if somebody carded me, their tip would equal the sum of my bill.

[Ironclad Alibi]

For the situation in the OP, perhaps bartenders should keep a few bottles of non-alcoholic beer around to serve them. Of course, they'd just complain about that too.

[Estil]

For the situation in the OP, perhaps bartenders should keep a few bottles of non-alcoholic beer around to serve them. Of course, they'd just complain about that too.

I thought you still have to be 21 to drink/be served even NA beer? That classic Beavis and Butt-Head episode (the one where they try to get drunk on NA beer) notwithstanding...

[depechemodefan]

Had a row once with a woman who came to my till, put her shopping down, then as I started ringing it through two young girls came up as well caryring two bottles of a kind of alcopop thing that we sell.
The woman asked the girls - right in front of me - "You got what you wanted?"
One of the girls said "Yes, this is the one we like best". So the woman takes it and puts it on the counter and says "This as well, please."

I imagine there are a lot of people who started to drink while underage and came out fine, but I just can't imagine why any parent would let their underage kids start drinking while they are young.

[Jester]

SC: Haha. She’s only seventeen! She won’t be able to get served.

Wow. He doesn't even attempt to lie about it. Stupid on top of everything else.

SC: Yeah, but she’s not at the bar being served. I will give it to her when she gets to the table, and that’s the end of it.

Wow, this dude really is stupid. Of course, he was right when he said that's the end of it....of course, what he didn't realize was that it was the end of him having any chance of getting this youngster any booze.

SC: Why do you care? Surely you were seventeen once! You know what it’s like! You must have tried being served at a bar while you were underage!

I've been seventeen trying to get served, I've been seventeen getting served, and I've been the person in charge of serving. So I think I can address this one, having had experience on both sides of the fence.

Yes, I was trying (and sometimes succeeding) at getting served underage. Did I have a fake ID? No. I had a very confident attitude. But that attitude would have done me squat if the person in charge of serving had done their job, which clearly they did not.
And while I can understand and even appreciate being the underaged person, the fact of the matter remains that, as the bartender, I am bound by the LAWS that I work under to NOT serve someone underaged. Just because I may sympathize with them does not mean I am willing to risk my job, my income, a court date, a potential fine, potential jail time, and the potential of being unemployable in my profession for several years for someone I do not know. For that matter, I wouldn't risk it for someone I did know.

SC: Come on. One friend to another. It’s not going to affect you, is it?

1. You are not my friend.
2. If you were my friend, you would not ask me to do this.
3. If you were my friend, and you asked me to do this, I still wouldn't do it.
4. It not only could affect me, it could affect me greatly. Such as the potential of a court date, jail time, a fine of up to $1,500, the loss of my job, and being barred from working in my profession for several years. I would say that that would affect me quite a bit, FRIEND.

(While I know CRML and I work in different places with different laws, I am sure that both places have serious penalties for such a transgression.)

SC: Well, we’re going somewhere else then. And do you know how much money I have in my wallet?

At a guess, I am going to say not nearly enough to make up for what I just outlined, PLUS the potential penalties the bar could face, such as fines and/or the suspension and/or revocation of their liquor license.

SC: So I bet you will make employee of the month once the boss finds out you lost this place £300. Really smart move there.

I think so, as does my boss, as he would much prefer me to follow the laws we work under and prevent a huge fine being levied against the business (not to mention the danger it could put the liquor license in) over cowtowing to a douchebag self-important asshole who wants me to violate the liquor laws I am supposed to follow and serve someone underaged without ID.

SC: But you lost good customer. You did not provide good customer service.

Good customers don't ask me to break the law. Bad customers do.

And following the law supercedes some egocentric gasbag's personal perceptions of what "good customer service" is.

SC: You don’t seem to realise how much money I was willing to spend in here.

(Unlike CRML, most of my income is derived from tips, which could be considered a kind of commission. However, that would not change my answer to this scrotumdoodle.)

I realize how much you said you were going to spend here.
I also have a good idea of how much you were actually going to spend here.
And neither is enough to make up for the potential legal and financial shitstorm that could ensue if I did what you asked me to do.

They left. I got on the phone and called rival bar to let them know they were coming.

Line of the DAY! Bravo! While I have never gone that far, I have dealt with idiots that I would not serve in the bar, who moved to the dining room or another end of the bar. At which point I would merely inform the other bartender/server covering that part of the dining room what had happened, and NOT to serve that idiot. And, of course, I informed the manager of the situation, so they were prepared to deal with the asshat.

A teenage boy who was clearly 15 or 16 approached me with a proposition.

SC: Can I give you this ten dollars so you can go inside and buy me a pack of cigarettes?

While I've never smoked, I did start drinking before I was 21, and my friends and I would often try to get people of age to buy us booze, sometimes even approaching complete strangers outside of convenience stores to do this. However, we never tried to get employees to do it, and if the person we approached refused, we had the good sense to not harass them about it.

That is why I absolutely hate people who don't card people who look underage.

Hell, I card people who often DO look of age. The rule of thumb here is if they look 30 or under, you should card them. I do. I take this quite seriously, often to the amusement of my coworkers. (But then, when we have tailgate parties giving away free beer for the start of various sports seasons, management has me in charge of the tailgate, as they know I am going to card hard. And I also have no problem running off the bums who try to get in on the whole free beer thing.)

I once had a coworker at the brewpub who, when I asked him why he didn't card some people at one table, told me he didn't card people, because he didn't want to lose his tip.
What an idiot.
I would rather lose a $10, $20, even $100 tip then deal with all the crap that would fall on my head if someone I fucked up and served someone underage, or got caught not carding someone who was questionable, or any other such legally questionable shit.

B: Well, as long as they are behaving, it's fine.
Me: So you have five grand ready, just in case the police come in?

Don't know about where you're at, but in a lot of jurisdictions, it would be the fine PER INCIDENT. So if he was found guilty of serving a bunch of minors, it would be that much more money.

I always hated the whole 'come on, you can do it for me, we're friends, right?'

No. We're not. I'm the bartender. You're the customer. And if you have proper ID, I will gladly treat you like a guest in my very own home, and make you feel welcome, and make sure you have a great time. But I am not about to violate my company's policies OR the law just because you are presuming more friendship with me than actually exists.

My FRIENDS would never dare to try to pull a stunt like that, and the few underage and inexperienced friends I had who did try to get served in my bar got told in no uncertain terms that while I will gladly go drink with them, I will not serve them at my bar, and they damn well better not try to get served by my coworkers and put me in a bad spot.

(Yes, I would go drinking with them. It's not my damn fault if other bartenders are not doing their job and carding as they should. Hypocritical? Perhaps. But when I am out with my friends, it is no longer my responsibility to make sure everyone's of age. Sure, there is the potential for "contributing to the delinquency" charges, but only if they are under 18, not under 21. And I am sure there are other potential charges, but none of them are as serious as if I actually served them at a job where I am charged with carding people. Just saying.)

I have my job because my predecessor didn't ID people and got caught in a sting.

That should be posted on the wall of every bar everywhere.

I had a horrible moment when I was working at the supermarket. I couldn't quite bring myself to ID a colleague who did look 20ish...

A girl I once worked with was really stupid about this once. Having just finished work at the restaurant/bar we both worked at, N sat down at the bar and asked the bartender for a drink. The bartender, not sure about N's age, asked her if she was 21. "Of course I am." Taking our coworker at her word, the bartender served N her drink.

Cue the manager coming out of the office and seeing N at the bar having an alcoholic drink. Thinking that N was not of age, but not being utterly sure, the manager went into the office and looked up N's paperwork, which of course they had on file. And found out that N was 19. And drinking. Where she worked.

N was fired on the spot.
The bartender was given a severe talking to and, I believe, a write-up, but was not fired.

Personally, I think the punishments fit the crimes. And I am pretty sure the bartender in question never again served a coworker he wasn't sure about without seeing ID (or at least asking the manager for verification).

Pfff. I I.D.'d a co-worker once. From then on people would poke fun at me about it. In a friendly way, of course.

I once ID'd a former coworker because I actually didn't remember her. If I had, I would have known she was very much of age. (Late 20s.) Cue many months of abuse at the hands of her, her friends, and my coworkers.

Secondly, I thought Brittish laws had some old timey left over that allowed parents to buy for children if they were present. Maybe the QI elves were wrong.

There are such laws in both Texas and Wisconsin, and perhaps other places I don't know about, where underaged people can drink if they are with their parents. Keep in mind, establishments have the right under that law to refuse to serve anyone who is under 21, but many places apparently go with the "if they're with their parents, it's fine" rule.

Shit, the bowling alley never carded me. Just handed me my glass of beer in exchange for my two bucks.

Not every bartender does their job as diligently as CRML or myself. Just saying.

Wow. Either he is in the Top Ten Megalomaniac EWs of All Time ... or he really was a 'sting'.

I can almost guarantee you that was not a sting, as sting operatives in most jurisdictions are instructed to merely attempt to attain the alcohol, but not to be assholes or attempt to intimidate or bully, as generally speaking, the local authorities don't want anything said to be entrapment.

For the situation in the OP, perhaps bartenders should keep a few bottles of non-alcoholic beer around to serve them.

I can't comment on the laws of other countries, but in just about everywhere that I know of in the U.S., the purchase of NA beer is still age-restricted, as it does technically contain some alcohol (usually about 0.5% alcohol by volume, as opposed to a typical alcoholic beer which is about 4-5% ABV).

I imagine there are a lot of people who started to drink while underage and came out fine, but I just can't imagine why any parent would let their underage kids start drinking while they are young.

I did!

And why would you let underage kids drink if you are a parent or parental figure?

So they learn how to drink responsibly, realize that it is both not that big a deal (since you are not banning it) and that a lot of responsibility (such as not driving) comes with drinking.

I freely gave my two nieces that lived in Key West drinks when they were at my apartment, and their mother knew it. Did I let them get drunk or out of control? No. But I am pretty damn sure that, whatever else can be said about them positively or negatively, both Princess and Dragon are going to drink far more responsibly in their lives than a lot of other people out there. Hell, I gave Dragon her first hangover when I was in Houston, and she's still only 18.

And while some people would say I should not be proud of this, I am. I am teaching my nieces how to drink responsibly, how to handle their alcohol, rather than telling them "Just say no!" and letting them find out the hard way how real life is. (And please, no debate on this here, as it would be going into fratching territory, and that is not my point here...just pointing out why someone would do this is all. You can disagree with me, of course. Many people I respect do. But again, let's not make this anything more than "I disagree with your approach, Jester." Thank you.)

[Lyse]

My mother allowed me to drink as a teenager, with conditions. I didn't hide it from her, I only drank at home or at family members homes, and I didn't leave once I had *anything* to drink without an adult. Took the forbidden fruit aspect away, and much like Jester, allowed her and the other adults to teach that *a* drink while socializing wasn't the same as binge drinking.

[Jester]

Thank you, Lyse. And thanks for reminding me to point out that while I did allow my nieces to drink with me from time to time, at no time was it ever binge drinking or anything like that. Yes, yes, I once made Princess chug a beer, I'll admit it, but it was in the spirit of the moment, and to be fair, when I say I "made" her, she really didn't need that much convincing. And before anyone jumps on me, it was just ONE beer. And to show you how responsible she was, she refused everyone else's offers of drinks--we were not alone--as she was, and these were her words, "being responsible."

[dragon_wings]

My parents let my brother and me taste the various beers and wines they had over the years. My brother would try them more often then not. I on the other hand usually didn't. I think I had my first sip of alcohol at 18.
Oh and my family was host to quite a few foreign exchange students over the years. My parents (my mother mostly, damn good hostess that she is) would offer them a glass of wine of they came from a culture where it might be culturally acceptable for a young adult to have a glass of wine with dinner.

[PepperElf]

did you ever get an update (or a thank you) from the other bar?

[pzychobitch]

I know what I would if I was the owner, make that waitress the new MOD with a big fat raise.

GOD himself would not be able to buy booze with her on duty if he does not have valid ID on him!

The exact same thing I'd do if I was the owner as well!

[Cia]

I imagine there are a lot of people who started to drink while underage and came out fine, but I just can't imagine why any parent would let their underage kids start drinking while they are young.

My parents did. They wanted to take away the 'mystique' that drinking alcohol seems to have around it. The first time I got drunk I was 7 - I remember drinking the beer, don't remember turning green and getting sick - and the last time I was 26.

[Cazzi]

And why would you let underage kids drink if you are a parent or parental figure?

So they learn how to drink responsibly, realize that it is both not that big a deal (since you are not banning it) and that a lot of responsibility (such as not driving) comes with drinking.

Exactly right.

I'm a parent, I let my son drink at home from about the age of 15/16 because he was getting to the age where he'd probably want to go out in the evenings with friends & I wanted him to know the taste & effects of alcohol in a safe environment rather than hit 18, then go out, start drinking & be drunk/in trouble before he knew what had hit him.

Being in the UK, I wasn't breaking any laws either, the UK law states that alcohol can be drunk at home from the age of 5. Don't think I would have let him start that early though

[Midnight_Angel]

My parents did. They wanted to take away the 'mystique' that drinking alcohol seems to have around it.

Same here. As a child I was fascinated by that 'beer' stuff my father tended to order when we were going out. So, after I had pestered him long enough, he commented 'Sure, take a sip!'
The (for a kid) horribly bitter taste I experienced reduced my interest down to zero for quite some time (until I was about 16 or so...)

[SongsOfDragons]

Teaching kids about responsible alcohol drinking in the ways mentioned in this thread should be in every parental literature.

Amusing story. I went to a garden party (ferret racing and cake!!) with my neighbour's children, who were all about ten years my senior. One of the other guests had a toddler running around, lovely little girl, bright and polite for her age. She could tell that the adults were drinking something interesting, and in the end after she kept reaching for the glasses of wine and being told no, the neighbour's daughter who was currently holding her dipped her pinkie finger in her wine and let the little girl lick it off.

The face she pulled was adorable. Mum was right nearby and had given a nod of approval, and she was laughing.

Then she kept trying to taste the water that had gathered in the dips in the manhole covers instead... XD