Quoth Hyndis
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I'm a computer science major....
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Coworker: Distro of choice?
Me: Gentoo.
Coworker: Ahh. A Masochist. I thought so.
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Quoth Broomjockey View PostHowever, being a Computer Science major doesn't really mean crap in this regard. You can fuck up your computer just as easily with it as without it.Last edited by Dreamstalker; 02-08-2010, 08:42 PM."I am quite confident that I do exist."
"Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up." The Doctor
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In the last year, I've had my work computer infected twice from banner ads, even with all of the protection we run. The sites I was on when they hit were dslreports.com and icanhascheezburger.com
You never know when you're going to get hit. All you can do is be prepared.
CHSome People Are Alive Only Because It Is Illegal To Kill Them
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Quoth crashhelmet View PostIn the last year, I've had my work computer infected twice from banner ads, even with all of the protection we run. The sites I was on when they hit were dslreports.com and icanhascheezburger.com
You never know when you're going to get hit. All you can do is be prepared.
CH
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Quoth Dreamstalker View PostSome of the CS majors I'd had to help managed to fuck things up worse than the other students, possibly because they "know what [I'm] doing"
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CMSC: I'm a computer science major...
Me: ...Who has probably never even SEEN the inside of their prebuilt PoS that they bought on discount 5 years ago. Now shut up and leave the hardware rebuild to those of us with the experience of dealing with your fuck ups.
Sigh, I wish I was making this up. CompSciMajors seem to forget that their course is a theoretical course, not a practical one.I AM the evil bastard!
A+ Certified IT Technician
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Quoth sld72382 View PostFirefox + Adblock Plus and No Script. Rogue banner ads will not be a problem again.Quoth crashhelmet View PostIn the last year, I've had my work computer infected twice from banner ads, even with all of the protection we run. The sites I was on when they hit were dslreports.com and icanhascheezburger.com
You never know when you're going to get hit. All you can do is be prepared.
CH
Eric the GreyIn memory of Dena - Don't Drink and Drive
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Quoth Eric the Grey View PostYea, even with all that, my AV (Avast) just yesterday detected a trojan coming from one of my comic sites and stopped it. Unfortunately, I don't know which site, because I open like 8 of them at a time..."I don't have to be petty. The Universe does that for me."
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Quoth lordlundar View PostSigh, I wish I was making this up. CompSciMajors seem to forget that their course is a theoretical course, not a practical one.
Jeepers! I never realized all those programming courses I took for my CompSci Degree were just theoretical. I guess those programs just worked in theory. Did you know theory can be compiled on a series of HP-UX servers?
</sarcasm off>
Let's keep in mind that not all degrees are equal, eh kids? Some of us Camp Sci majors don't brag about it, because we don't often need to call tech support. When I do need to call, I'm polite and professional so long as what I'm being asked to do makes sense. An SC is an SC no matter the training or career.The Rich keep getting richer because they keep doing what it was that made them rich. Ditto the Poor.
"Hy kan tell dey is schmot qvestions, dey is makink my head hurt."
Hoc spatio locantur.
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Quoth Geek King View Post</sarcasm>
Jeepers! I never realized all those programming courses I took for my CompSci Degree were just theoretical. I guess those programs just worked in theory. Did you know theory can be compiled on a series of HP-UX servers?
</sarcasm off>
Let's keep in mind that not all degrees are equal, eh kids? Some of us Camp Sci majors don't brag about it, because we don't often need to call tech support. When I do need to call, I'm polite and professional so long as what I'm being asked to do makes sense. An SC is an SC no matter the training or career.
I do stand on my theoretical statement though. Unless your coding is strictly from a book(Which I doubt), then the course is a theoretical course. The course is for understanding for future research and development, not usually for desktop diagnostics or repairs. An SC that's a CompSci Major and whose knowledge is ONLY from the course rarely looks inside a desktop, and I have seen more than a few with a prebuilt PoS and a stick of RAM asking me how to put it in.I AM the evil bastard!
A+ Certified IT Technician
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Quoth lordlundar View PostI do stand on my theoretical statement though. Unless your coding is strictly from a book(Which I doubt), then the course is a theoretical course.
Computer Science is meant to provide the student with an understanding of how computers work internally, thereby allowing the student to forge ahead to see not what they do now, but what they can do.
The courses are not hardware oriented, but rather software oriented. If you'd like, I can find any number of hardware oriented people who would blink stupidly at me the instant I mention terms like double ended queue, doubly-linked list, associative array, or balanced tree. However, these are fundamental items for the CompSci student. They are far from theory. They are the bread and butter of getting software done.
If you had simply gone with "CompSci majors tend to know little about the hardware they're using", then few people would disagree with you. You'd be right, they don't. That's because the hardware is unimportant to them as long as it meets some sort of spec (memory, storage, speed). It's kind of like asking a chef which brand of plate (s)he serves food on. As a rule, it won't matter. What will matter is the pattern on the plate, the shape of the plate, etc. IOW, the specs of the plate.
By saying that CompSci is purely theory, you've instead lambasted every single CompSci major out there. You've stated that they are disconnected from reality, and have no clue about what they're doing. And with the statement I quoted above, you're only digging yourself deeper into that hole.
As with every group, there are idiots. I've known more than a few, sadly. Your statement lumps me in with the people who have issues coding up a simple "hello world!" application, and to that I take great offense.
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Oi, clearly there's a misunderstanding here. You seem to think that by calling it theoretical I'm calling it worthless. I'm not. But here's what you wrote:
Computer Science is meant to provide the student with an understanding of how computers work internally, thereby allowing the student to forge ahead to see not what they do now, but what they can do.
Wait, that is the exact same definition as what you gave. So by your own definition, the knowledge acquired in the CompSci degree is rarely, if ever, directly applied. In fact by the definition you gave, it is not even supposed to be applied directly. Look at the OSI model for networking. It's not meant to be directly applied (in actually, it's impossible to directly apply), but it's there to understand how networking works so you can implement a network easier.
Now, to my point here. Diagnostic and repair do not require a degree in computer mechanics or computer science to do. You do not need to know how the signals transfer from a Video card to the CPU to replace the card. Nor do you need to know how a script line draws an image to reset a program's settings. None of the items taught in a CompSci or CompMech class tell you directly how to make those repairs, simply teach you the behind the scenes so you can understand the why it does what it does.
CompSci and CompMech classes have their uses. A lot of uses. But it's a behind the scenes purpose, not directly applied. Suffice to say, if a I want a program designed to accomplish a particular task, yes, I'll go to a CompSci person. But if I need a part replaced or a virus removed, I'll go to the guy with the tech kit instead.I AM the evil bastard!
A+ Certified IT Technician
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Stop. Just stop.
Quoth lordlundar View PostWait, that is the exact same definition as what you gave. So by your own definition, the knowledge acquired in the CompSci degree is rarely, if ever, directly applied.
- Data structures, AKA how to represent data in memory. This includes the four I mentioned earlier (double ended queue, doubly linked list, associative array, and balanced tree), and a whole lot more. Which ones get used more frequently varies according to the needs of the project.
- Algorithm design. This covers the way in which you sit down and figure out what method to use to get the computer to do something. This also includes figuring out which method is fastest, which method uses the least amount of memory, and then the ability to make the right choice based on what the needs of this system are. Oh, and it also includes which data structures to use to implement this properly.
- Implementing the now designed algorithm. I didn't take classes in a dozen or so different programming languages just for kicks. I needed to work in a variety of languages in order to learn how to evaluate which language would be best for a given job.
- Debugging the implementation. After all, we're humans, we're not perfect. We have to make sure that what we build does what we thought it would do.
- Procedural Programming, Object Oriented Programming, and Functional Programming. These are the three major paradigms of programming. I had to learn which was which, and why I would use any of them. Depending on the task, I will switch between these modes mostly seamlessly (Functional Programming doesn't get used much by me, so that's a bit harder to do).
- Architectural methods for designing software. The classes focuses on the waterfall method, since that's the easiest to demonstrate. However, they showed several other types, including variations on rapid prototyping.
- Database design and normalization. This focuses on how to organize a database to reduce duplication of data, reduce errors, and still keep the speed at an acceptable level.
And that's not even everything I had to learn, nor even everything I use on a day to day basis. For my work, I wind up using everything on that list on a near daily basis. I can guarantee everything on that list is used multiple times per week. Oh, and my work? Right now, I'm making web applications. Simple, bog-standard, nothing new and innovative web applications.
So, no, CompSci is very much not a purely theoretical discipline, nor are my classes so far behind me that they don't affect my choices today. Things I learned then are still relevant today.
Theoretical? Not hardly. Demanding in different ways than putting memory into a machine? Yeah, that I'll agree with. If you're going to call my profession and hobby a theoretical discipline, you might as well call a car designer's job theoretical. The only differences between their job and mine are that theirs produces something you can physically touch.
So, stop. Please.Last edited by Pedersen; 02-10-2010, 08:07 PM.
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I'm only vaguely aware of what is being discussed here. But I'm pretty sure there's a debate happening.
And debates belong at Fratching. Take the arguments there, or we'll have to close the thread.
Thanks, guys.
If you have to ask, it's probably better posted at www.fratching.com
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