Graphics card question

[Eireann]

Thanks, Der Cute! I want to know as much as I can about these things; eventually, I want to be able to build a computer from the ground up. Those cards look great, but for one thing - the fitting (for lack of a better work; the part that plugs in) is backwards from the plug I have in my computer. My plug is long strip - space - short strip. Or, I think, I can put one of those strip - space - strip - space - strip cards in there. I found one online recently, and I'll have to look for it again, because I didn't make a note of it.

Looking at the ATI card, it's very similar to the one the man had yesterday, and the only problem with it was the strip. Right length, wrong configuration. I wonder if all this means I'm going to be gifted with a nice new computer soon?

[lordlundar]

Okay, We need (or at least I need) some visual reference to go by, so here we go:



This should be the board you have (ignore the advertising, it's the best pic I could find on short notice.) I have the PCI-E x16 which you call the "long" one and the PC!-E x1 which you call the "short" one circled red and blue respectively.

Now from what I'm trying to figure out from what you're saying is that you want to keep the "short" one open. I'll put this simply, you can't. The card you want has a heat sink that's going to occupy the slot that the "short" one uses. I know of no card that occupies two slots that has the sink on the other side because the "long" plug tends to be the closest slot in the case.

The good news is that unless you have something in that "short" slot, you can cover it without worry. The heat sink will rest close to the socket (what you've been calling plugs) but won't damage it. If you do have something occupying it, you will need a card that's called either "single slot" or "low profile" or if it's not being used (it's usually used for dial up modems) you can pull out what's in there and put the card in.

To summarize:

-If short one is unoccupied, put the card in and hook it up. you won't harm anything (remember to remove the plate [the metal strip] in the case first though)
-If short one is occupied but not used, remove the device and put the card in.
-if short one is occupied and in use, tell your sales guy you need a single slot card.

[Eireann]

Oh dear.

Oh my.

DAMN, it's a good thing I never pretended to know anything at all about computer hardware!

Okay, everyone, gather 'round. You see those two slots to the RIGHT of the ones circled in the picture?

I've been using one of those. All those cables, you know... I didn't even SEE the ones circled in the picture.

So it looks like the one the guy had for me, the second one, would work after all. Thoughts?

[emax4]

IMO, you might be able to contact the guy and see if he wants to resell it. Don't beat yourself up, but don't pretend that you're too proud to say "I screwed up". The seller may or may not want to deal with you, but if you promise to buy from him again (and keep the promise), he may still sell it to you. Don't be afraid to say that other people have helped you, but you didn't see that the ports you needed were obstructed by cables since you never took the motherboard out of the chassis.

[Der Cute]

Ah. You have been using the PCI slots. No PCI express..generic PCI.
Both of the cards I posted about will fit. Because...I think...you were talking about PCI the whole time and thought it was PCI-x. But - you did also find out that your chassis is a full width, not low profile chassis. So all is not lost.

Up to you now, I'd contact the guy, send him pics! and ask for the stuff again. Tell him you were looking at the wrong slots but you're all good now.

Hey, you're doing very well with this stuff!

[Eireann]

I opened up the computer and took a good, long look at the slot. And since I had it open, I measured the slot. Turns out, it's longer than the regular PCI slots. So I'm not sure that the second card would have fit, either. However, it has the right configuration. This means I can put back the hardware I removed (the photo card reader) once I get the right graphics card; the one I'm using now is occupying the slot usually used by the card reader.

[lordlundar]

I opened up the computer and took a good, long look at the slot. And since I had it open, I measured the slot. Turns out, it's longer than the regular PCI slots. So I'm not sure that the second card would have fit, either. However, it has the right configuration. This means I can put back the hardware I removed (the photo card reader) once I get the right graphics card; the one I'm using now is occupying the slot usually used by the card reader.

The slots are standardized. A PCI-E x16 is always the same length. Same goes for PCI-E x1, PCI, etc (gonna stop now before you go into acronym overload) So if you want a card that fits in your PCI-E x16 slot, you just need to find a card that is labelled to work in it. And as you can see, the slots are keyed, so you shouldn't be able to put them in wrong. (Yes, I know the stories. That's why I said shouldn't as opposed to can't.)

As well, don't worry about the mistakes. It happens and you learn from them. Heck, I locked out my family out of our computer when I was learning.

If you think this is bad, just wait till you start dealing with RAM. That'll REALLY give you a headache.

[Eireann]

Oh, I have! I installed more RAM a while ago. Once I realized that I had installed it incorrectly (flashing red lights, loud alarms), I turned off the computer and installed it the right way. Now, all is well. I'm going to post some cards on here for advice on which ones to get - I can get a new one for less than the guy was offering, plus his English is so basic that I think he experiences pain whenever he has to deal with me.

[dalesys]

... I didn't even SEE the ones circled in the picture.

Eireann, don't feel bad. You've just unlocked one of the primal achievements of any good tech... The skill to be so focused on the problem that you can't see the wombat chewing on your nose. Not that I've done that...

(stuffing the memory back into its dungeon of a full day in Edmonton, tracing circuits with a scope, cross-checking against the schematic, before realizing it was doing exactly what it was supposed to...)

[Der Cute]

The slots are standardized. A PCI-E x16 is always the same length. Same goes for PCI-E x1, PCI, etc (gonna stop now before you go into acronym overload) So if you want a card that fits in your PCI-E x16 slot, you just need to find a card that is labelled to work in it. And as you can see, the slots are keyed, so you shouldn't be able to put them in wrong. (Yes, I know the stories. That's why I said shouldn't as opposed to can't.)

As well, don't worry about the mistakes. It happens and you learn from them. Heck, I locked out my family out of our computer when I was learning.

If you think this is bad, just wait till you start dealing with RAM. That'll REALLY give you a headache.

So you measured the dark slots (they're also color standardized to help people). Go take a look at the PICTURES included on the links I sent you. The Amazon and Newegg have ways to look at their cards in more than one direction. You'll see what the slot cuts are on the PCI Express ones. You'll see the fan on one (makes ya need more space) you'll see the ports on the ass end of the card. Swirl those pics around. You will see the 3 chunks that will fit your PCI express stuff.
And remember: these cards you are searching for are not top of the line and/or really super popular anymore. You might have to search harder for them. Just sayin'.
They will work.
Now, something else to think about techy wise - your power unit in your puter is 375 watts. Read the specs on the cards to see what THEY need. You don't want to have a 250 watt power unit and have a card that needs 500! (doesn't exist, but you see my point). You should be fine, but LOOK ANYWAYS.

So:
go to those links
look at multiple pics of them
see the chunks they have
read the specs on the card - RAM/memory. Speeds. Watt usage
read the specs on your machine again (use that link I gave you a bit ago)
check elec use.
check power cable plugs within your machine, got one that's long enough and will fit the card? (hasn't happened to me yet, but you just have to be thorough)
close case
rebootski
happy happy joy joy.

[Chromatix]

So you measured the dark slots (they're also color standardized to help people).

The ports on the *outside* of the computer are colour standardised. The ones on the *inside* are not. Motherboard manufacturers can and do choose any colour scheme they like.

By way of example, here's one of my spare m/boards which has one black slot and one blue - the blue being much easier to see the structure of in poor light. It also has a PCIe x1 slot in white.

Also included is a photo comparing the length of PCIe x16 and PCI - not much in it - and identifying the PCI Express Graphics power socket which is often (but not always) found on graphics card these days.

[lordlundar]

The ports on the *outside* of the computer are colour standardised. The ones on the *inside* are not. Motherboard manufacturers can and do choose any colour scheme they like.

By way of example, here's one of my spare m/boards which has one black slot and one blue - the blue being much easier to see the structure of in poor light. It also has a PCIe x1 slot in white.

Also included is a photo comparing the length of PCIe x16 and PCI - not much in it - and identifying the PCI Express Graphics power socket which is often (but not always) found on graphics card these days.

Pretty sure one of those Most likely the left most) is a PCI-E x32, hence the different colour. You are right that they aren't colour standardized (not officially at any rate) but the different colour does mean something.

[Chromatix]

Pretty sure one of those Most likely the left most) is a PCI-E x32, hence the different colour. You are right that they aren't colour standardized (not officially at any rate) but the different colour does mean something.

No, there is no such thing as PCIe x32.

In fact, this m/board is one of many that has a pair of slots switchable between being two x8 slots or one x16 slot. There is a small "switch card" in this case - not visible in photo - which physically connects the front and back data lines together in the black slot, so that the black slot is disabled but it's bandwidth is provided to the blue slot instead. The back lines of the two slots are physically connected together to enable this.

The colour coding is simply to tell the user to put the graphics card in the blue slot and the switch card (which is also black) in the black slot, if they only have one graphics card.

Another use of internal colour coding is to identify the two channels of the memory bus so that pairs of DIMMs can be fitted correctly. Unfortunately some manufacturers do it one way (colouring each channel uniquely) and others do it the opposite way (colouring the slots to be filled at the same time uniquely), and with a typical four-slot, two-channel board there is no way to tell which is which without opening the manual. Looking at the physical arrangement of the sockets doesn't help either, unless they are actually on opposite sides of the CPU (which is fairly rare these days, due to the size of CPU heatsinks leaving little space for layout luxuries).

[Der Cute]

hey I remember the ISA slot being brown, and so far the PCI's always being beige/whiteish. The PCI-x have not been either of those colors, only dark so far. But you are right those aren't standardized. I guess I'd say I've seen a pattern.

And of course I know the legacy ports on the back are standardized! I remember when they WEREN'T!

[dalesys]

And of course I know the legacy ports on the back are standardized! I remember when they WEREN'T!

What's the pinout standard and connector for RS-232? ... and who bothered to use it? Gah! (shudder)

Is this device an LSD or LDS... Save the whales!