Entitled to my tiny retail salary? (long)

[ralerin]

I feel guilty and angry about this but I guess it's time that I bitch and maybe you guys can offer advice?

As you know, there is a recession on. It's hit my parents hard. Maybe harder than I may have realized. But.

Little over a year ago, for Easter, mom asked me to buy candy. She would pay me back. I said ok, fine. Then it wasn't just the candy. It was all sorts of things, and that she would pay me back when Dad gave her some extra money. Then Dad went to the hospital, and we lost the family business. My parents declared bankruptcy for the second time in their lives. They're humiliated, obviously.

However. They made it a point not to ask my brother and I for rent money or anything, even though I offered to pay them $xx/month to help when this whole affair started. They shrugged it off. They refuse to ask for help from anyone, from family, from the government, even though we're looking at losing the house by September if things don't change.

Every day is a constant barrage of complaining and poverty talk and "I want this but can't afford it, I need that but I'm too poor", etc, etc, etc. When my parents declared bankruptcy for the first time in the late 80's, they lost everything then. House, car, the fancy lifestyle and had 2 young children. Somehow they picked themselves up and dusted themselves off; but that did not change their mentality. I remember the eating out 3-4x a week, I remember getting fancy clothes, I remember getting fancy toys. I remember the jewelry and going out to antique shops and buying things. And now, when they are past retirement age and don't have the advantage of time to pick themselves up and dust themselves off, their mentality still hasn't changed and they cry poor. I hoard money, I refuse to spend it, I feel extreme guilt when spending it, even if it's on something that may better my life/Etsy shop or something that I need or have wanted for months. I work extremely hard for the not even $8/hour I make at work. I pay 3/4 of my salary towards school loans and medicine/chiropractic bills and the rest I keep.

My step-grandmother (my deceased grandfather's second wife; was like my grandmother to me since my real one died before I was born) died in October and ever since then I have heard "We're going to get some money from her!" I say my parents will get less than $100, mum's step-brother is a tightass and has already wreacked havoc and found the hidden stashes of money in my grandfather's house, since grandpapa didn't believe in banks. The will is split 8 ways and I have no idea what will happen. I know my parents expect to get a nice big slice of the pie and I say they will get less than nothing.

I've been asking about when they will start repaying me the money they owe me but I keep hearing "We have none, sorry. We are not trying to screw you over, but we have none, we can't afford brakes or oil for the heater or xyz". I calculated what they owe me and left them a note saying "You owe me $yyy, I want to discuss a payment plan, you are not going to get another penny from me until you guys start paying." I got an angry note saying "We owe you $yyy? Ok, Ms. Smarty pants, you now owe us $ZZZ. Per month. It's time you learned the real world." $ZZZ is the price of a really nice two bedroom apartment in my area. I told them "no fucking way. You guys aren't getting a penny from me for that." And I have been whined at ever since that I MUST pull my own weight and help them with their debt. And "once we get your step grandmother's money, things will turn out better, you will be paid."

Oh ho ho now. Let's see. You feel you are entitled to my tiny retail salary and a piece of my brother's just above poverty line income to "help" you guys with your overwhelming debt; a debt that you guys have inflicted on yourselves by not heeding the warnings of 30 years ago. And you have the nerve to have told me "we will never charge you rent"; but the moment that I refuse to give you guys a penny and request you start paying me back; you turn around and give me shit that I owe you money because I ask for my money back?

Fuck you guys. No. And yet I'm starting to realize just in how much shit we're in. My dad refuses to raise the rent on his apartments even though the tenant upstairs is a right bitch and likes to use more than her fair share of resources; we could lose the house, we could lose the dogs and I could end up on the street. Then what the hell do I do?

(Edit: I know I have to leave the household before anything changes; but I need more money to do so to begin with. My student loans and medicine payments eat 3/4 of my income and the rest I keep for myself to buy food or clothing with. Can't buy a car since that requires substantial savings, and I don't have enough money hoarded yet to afford car and insurance and gas and maintenance; nevermind moving out and buying an apartment. Yes, I'm working on finding a second job to make that dream easier and I may have one lined up.)

[Kheldarson]

It may--note may--be easier to address that debt in terms of rent. When I was living with my parents, I had a "rent" of around $200 per month. Frankly, I never "paid" it. Why?

Because, working at the retail store I did, I was constantly buying groceries and goods. Never the big grocery list (the once a month restock in order to feed a family of five) but the niceties and necessities. And it usually came out to around $200, give or take.

You could work a similar deal with your parents. The previous debt is "back rent" and noncollectible. But, from now on, they can either collect a set amount from you up front or you buy them stuff up to said amount. Maybe it helps fix the car. Maybe something in the house. But that's rent.

But getting out sounds like your best option really.

[Heksubah]

Slightly off the direct topic, but something that may help with your expenses... I used to work in a patient assistance program helping people get medication for free. If you have no insurance for your medication, with the wage you are claiming, you can likely get your medications for free from the manufacturer (or at a steep discount). Sometimes even with insurance too. If you need more information, PM me.

[Pixilated]

ralerin, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I'm like your parents: did a lousy job of handling my money for a couple of decades and am now paying the price. I like to think, though, that I've learned something and my paycheque-to-paycheque lifestyle will be a thing of the past once I get back in the workforce.

I will be moving in with mom in a few weeks for at least one of my remaining two years of school. I'll be paying her a nominal 'rent' mostly because I owe her considerable money ... were it not for that, I'd be following Kheldarson's excellent suggestions: paying for my room "in kind" (housework, laundry, buying groceries, etc.)

About your parents' "poor us" act: can you turn them off, so to speak, when they start whining? Focus on something else, or even leave the room? Even if it doesn't cause them to stop, at least it might not grate on your nerves so much.

And you must help them with their debt? Um, no. Their debt is their problem, particularly since your father won't even raise the rent on the apartment!

My suggestions:
1) Unfortunately, given their current circumstances, whether you will ever get the money back that they owe you seems rather problematical at this point. As justified as your demand is, I would not push too hard on this at this time. If they do inherit any money, or in any way get themselves in better financial shape, then bring it up again. Try not to make it confrontational ("Where's my money?!") but more of a polite reminder ("Mom, Dad, I'd like to talk about getting that money back now ...")

2) If you can pay anything as "rent", do so -- although if you can get out of there quickly, that issue will solve itself. The reason I suggest you pay something is it will give you something of a moral high ground -- you are doing what you can. And if they're going to gripe and whine about it, you'll be happy to stop doing even that, mkay? Also, it just sounds as if it's going to be a nonstop squabble at this point ... you ask for your money and they lash back with demands for rent and excuses why they can't make any attempt at all to pay you your money.

3) Other than any "rent," do not give them any more money. If you move out and they ask for money, give them some only if it will not put you into a bad situation. Otherwise just refuse as politely as you can.

Good luck.

[PepperElf]

i'd also recommend moving out if you can. that way you can say 'see i'm not burdening you'.

i don't think you'll get your money back though. especially if they're going to retroactively charge you rent in revenge for asking to be paid back.

[Aethian]

I have a feeling this is going to come off as harsh and Ralerin I humbly ask forgiveness now.

Your parents did not learn their lesson for having to declare bankruptcy the first time. Nothing changed as you said you still lived as if there was money to be had. Needing to file a second time because of poor planning is all on them.

I suggest it's time to get away from that toxic setting. If there was no money to be had for easter candy then there should have been no easter candy. If there is no money for x, then a plan should be developed to get x...not just whine about it.

If there is anyone that you know they would listen to, since parents rarely listen to children on such issues...then you need to sit down with that person so that can sit down with your parents. It's past time they learned how to budget and how to pay for things, unless of course you want to sacrifice yourself so that they don't eat Alpo in their later years.

[Seshat]

My suggestion:

Look into shelter-housing type situations. Not full on 'housing shelters', but the sort of place that gives you a room (with a lock!), and access to shared bathing and kitchen facilities.

You'll want to keep your food and preferably cooking utensils in your room, and you'll want bathe in thongs (flipflops? The shoe, not the underwear); but it's usually affordable and sliding-scale rent. And it gets you out of the toxic situation.

You may need to talk to social-work type people to get access to such a place, but it may well make the difference.

Another possibility is backpacker hostels. Also, backpacker hostel staff often keep a jobs board of places that pay enough money to cover the cost of a hostel bed or hostel room.

Neither is a place you will want to stay long term. Both are places where you can stay long ENOUGH.

[Shpepper]

You might also look into seeing if you can lower your student loan payments. A lot of the time if your income is below a certain level or things change, they can lower your payments. It is worth asking about.

[Der Cute]

Shpepper said it: contact your student loan people; you can change your payments due to your low income, medical reasons, even just defer it for a year or so (it will still collect interest) but you can have it chill out now.
I'm glad you realized that they threw away money, assuming someone will bail their asses out. Let'em fall on it. You can see so many ways for them to help themselves, but if they don't ask, they won't get. YOU can't do diddly on this one. When they're dirt poor (living out of a car, hand washing stuff in a bathroom, eating at homeless shelters) then you can help them by finding assistance for them.
They f'd up big time.
And keep your money.

[patiokitty]

Ralerin, I'm going to agree with all of the above. Things are not going to get better for your parents but there is no reason for you to have to go down with that sinking ship.

Find an alternate living situation - even an understanding friend letting you take over their couch is better than waiting for the inevitable to happen. It's pretty clear that your parents are going to lose the house and you'll end up homeless anyway. Why not do something while it's still within your power to do so?

Give up on ever getting repaid the money your parents owe you. You will never see it, even if they do end up with money again. They'll see it as their right to keep it because you didn't pay them rent and so on and so forth. They won't care that you've tried to help them out financially or otherwise, especially after them saying that you owe $yyy. It sounds like they're in it for the money and it's easy to go after loved ones for that added money than it is for tenants, by the sounds of it.

Seriously, you're on the equivalent of the Titanic and that ship is going down fast. Don't wait it out - get out now while you still can.