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Entitled to my tiny retail salary? (long)

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  • Entitled to my tiny retail salary? (long)

    I feel guilty and angry about this but I guess it's time that I bitch and maybe you guys can offer advice?

    As you know, there is a recession on. It's hit my parents hard. Maybe harder than I may have realized. But.

    Little over a year ago, for Easter, mom asked me to buy candy. She would pay me back. I said ok, fine. Then it wasn't just the candy. It was all sorts of things, and that she would pay me back when Dad gave her some extra money. Then Dad went to the hospital, and we lost the family business. My parents declared bankruptcy for the second time in their lives. They're humiliated, obviously.

    However. They made it a point not to ask my brother and I for rent money or anything, even though I offered to pay them $xx/month to help when this whole affair started. They shrugged it off. They refuse to ask for help from anyone, from family, from the government, even though we're looking at losing the house by September if things don't change.

    Every day is a constant barrage of complaining and poverty talk and "I want this but can't afford it, I need that but I'm too poor", etc, etc, etc. When my parents declared bankruptcy for the first time in the late 80's, they lost everything then. House, car, the fancy lifestyle and had 2 young children. Somehow they picked themselves up and dusted themselves off; but that did not change their mentality. I remember the eating out 3-4x a week, I remember getting fancy clothes, I remember getting fancy toys. I remember the jewelry and going out to antique shops and buying things. And now, when they are past retirement age and don't have the advantage of time to pick themselves up and dust themselves off, their mentality still hasn't changed and they cry poor. I hoard money, I refuse to spend it, I feel extreme guilt when spending it, even if it's on something that may better my life/Etsy shop or something that I need or have wanted for months. I work extremely hard for the not even $8/hour I make at work. I pay 3/4 of my salary towards school loans and medicine/chiropractic bills and the rest I keep.

    My step-grandmother (my deceased grandfather's second wife; was like my grandmother to me since my real one died before I was born) died in October and ever since then I have heard "We're going to get some money from her!" I say my parents will get less than $100, mum's step-brother is a tightass and has already wreacked havoc and found the hidden stashes of money in my grandfather's house, since grandpapa didn't believe in banks. The will is split 8 ways and I have no idea what will happen. I know my parents expect to get a nice big slice of the pie and I say they will get less than nothing.

    I've been asking about when they will start repaying me the money they owe me but I keep hearing "We have none, sorry. We are not trying to screw you over, but we have none, we can't afford brakes or oil for the heater or xyz". I calculated what they owe me and left them a note saying "You owe me $yyy, I want to discuss a payment plan, you are not going to get another penny from me until you guys start paying." I got an angry note saying "We owe you $yyy? Ok, Ms. Smarty pants, you now owe us $ZZZ. Per month. It's time you learned the real world." $ZZZ is the price of a really nice two bedroom apartment in my area. I told them "no fucking way. You guys aren't getting a penny from me for that." And I have been whined at ever since that I MUST pull my own weight and help them with their debt. And "once we get your step grandmother's money, things will turn out better, you will be paid."

    Oh ho ho now. Let's see. You feel you are entitled to my tiny retail salary and a piece of my brother's just above poverty line income to "help" you guys with your overwhelming debt; a debt that you guys have inflicted on yourselves by not heeding the warnings of 30 years ago. And you have the nerve to have told me "we will never charge you rent"; but the moment that I refuse to give you guys a penny and request you start paying me back; you turn around and give me shit that I owe you money because I ask for my money back?

    Fuck you guys. No. And yet I'm starting to realize just in how much shit we're in. My dad refuses to raise the rent on his apartments even though the tenant upstairs is a right bitch and likes to use more than her fair share of resources; we could lose the house, we could lose the dogs and I could end up on the street. Then what the hell do I do?

    (Edit: I know I have to leave the household before anything changes; but I need more money to do so to begin with. My student loans and medicine payments eat 3/4 of my income and the rest I keep for myself to buy food or clothing with. Can't buy a car since that requires substantial savings, and I don't have enough money hoarded yet to afford car and insurance and gas and maintenance; nevermind moving out and buying an apartment. Yes, I'm working on finding a second job to make that dream easier and I may have one lined up.)
    Last edited by ralerin; 05-17-2012, 03:21 AM.
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: It is the courage to continue that counts.-Winston Churchill

  • #2
    It may--note may--be easier to address that debt in terms of rent. When I was living with my parents, I had a "rent" of around $200 per month. Frankly, I never "paid" it. Why?

    Because, working at the retail store I did, I was constantly buying groceries and goods. Never the big grocery list (the once a month restock in order to feed a family of five) but the niceties and necessities. And it usually came out to around $200, give or take.

    You could work a similar deal with your parents. The previous debt is "back rent" and noncollectible. But, from now on, they can either collect a set amount from you up front or you buy them stuff up to said amount. Maybe it helps fix the car. Maybe something in the house. But that's rent.

    But getting out sounds like your best option really.
    My NaNo page

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    • #3
      Slightly off the direct topic, but something that may help with your expenses... I used to work in a patient assistance program helping people get medication for free. If you have no insurance for your medication, with the wage you are claiming, you can likely get your medications for free from the manufacturer (or at a steep discount). Sometimes even with insurance too. If you need more information, PM me.
      "Oh, the strawberries don't taste as they used to and the thighs of women have lost their clutch!"

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      • #4
        ralerin, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I'm like your parents: did a lousy job of handling my money for a couple of decades and am now paying the price. I like to think, though, that I've learned something and my paycheque-to-paycheque lifestyle will be a thing of the past once I get back in the workforce.

        I will be moving in with mom in a few weeks for at least one of my remaining two years of school. I'll be paying her a nominal 'rent' mostly because I owe her considerable money ... were it not for that, I'd be following Kheldarson's excellent suggestions: paying for my room "in kind" (housework, laundry, buying groceries, etc.)

        About your parents' "poor us" act: can you turn them off, so to speak, when they start whining? Focus on something else, or even leave the room? Even if it doesn't cause them to stop, at least it might not grate on your nerves so much.

        And you must help them with their debt? Um, no. Their debt is their problem, particularly since your father won't even raise the rent on the apartment!

        My suggestions:
        1) Unfortunately, given their current circumstances, whether you will ever get the money back that they owe you seems rather problematical at this point. As justified as your demand is, I would not push too hard on this at this time. If they do inherit any money, or in any way get themselves in better financial shape, then bring it up again. Try not to make it confrontational ("Where's my money?!") but more of a polite reminder ("Mom, Dad, I'd like to talk about getting that money back now ...")

        2) If you can pay anything as "rent", do so -- although if you can get out of there quickly, that issue will solve itself. The reason I suggest you pay something is it will give you something of a moral high ground -- you are doing what you can. And if they're going to gripe and whine about it, you'll be happy to stop doing even that, mkay? Also, it just sounds as if it's going to be a nonstop squabble at this point ... you ask for your money and they lash back with demands for rent and excuses why they can't make any attempt at all to pay you your money.

        3) Other than any "rent," do not give them any more money. If you move out and they ask for money, give them some only if it will not put you into a bad situation. Otherwise just refuse as politely as you can.

        Good luck.

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        • #5
          i'd also recommend moving out if you can. that way you can say 'see i'm not burdening you'.

          i don't think you'll get your money back though. especially if they're going to retroactively charge you rent in revenge for asking to be paid back.

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          • #6
            I have a feeling this is going to come off as harsh and Ralerin I humbly ask forgiveness now.

            Your parents did not learn their lesson for having to declare bankruptcy the first time. Nothing changed as you said you still lived as if there was money to be had. Needing to file a second time because of poor planning is all on them.

            I suggest it's time to get away from that toxic setting. If there was no money to be had for easter candy then there should have been no easter candy. If there is no money for x, then a plan should be developed to get x...not just whine about it.

            If there is anyone that you know they would listen to, since parents rarely listen to children on such issues...then you need to sit down with that person so that can sit down with your parents. It's past time they learned how to budget and how to pay for things, unless of course you want to sacrifice yourself so that they don't eat Alpo in their later years.

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            • #7
              My suggestion:

              Look into shelter-housing type situations. Not full on 'housing shelters', but the sort of place that gives you a room (with a lock!), and access to shared bathing and kitchen facilities.

              You'll want to keep your food and preferably cooking utensils in your room, and you'll want bathe in thongs (flipflops? The shoe, not the underwear); but it's usually affordable and sliding-scale rent. And it gets you out of the toxic situation.

              You may need to talk to social-work type people to get access to such a place, but it may well make the difference.

              Another possibility is backpacker hostels. Also, backpacker hostel staff often keep a jobs board of places that pay enough money to cover the cost of a hostel bed or hostel room.

              Neither is a place you will want to stay long term. Both are places where you can stay long ENOUGH.
              Seshat's self-help guide:
              1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
              2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
              3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
              4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

              "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

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              • #8
                You might also look into seeing if you can lower your student loan payments. A lot of the time if your income is below a certain level or things change, they can lower your payments. It is worth asking about.

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                • #9
                  Shpepper said it: contact your student loan people; you can change your payments due to your low income, medical reasons, even just defer it for a year or so (it will still collect interest) but you can have it chill out now.
                  I'm glad you realized that they threw away money, assuming someone will bail their asses out. Let'em fall on it. You can see so many ways for them to help themselves, but if they don't ask, they won't get. YOU can't do diddly on this one. When they're dirt poor (living out of a car, hand washing stuff in a bathroom, eating at homeless shelters) then you can help them by finding assistance for them.
                  They f'd up big time.
                  And keep your money.
                  In my heart, in my soul, I'm a woman for rock & roll.
                  She's as fast as slugs on barbituates.

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                  • #10
                    Ralerin:
                    I'm going to be logical and blunt. Forgive me.
                    Pros at the moment:
                    Shelter over your head
                    Food in your tummy
                    You have a steady-ish income (not assuming you will be employed forever due to economy)

                    Cons:
                    Emotional Abuse/Bullying
                    Surrounded by greed
                    Negative thoughts in your head from their behavior and your stress from $ (guilt and frustration)
                    Your own stress of income levels.

                    Solve?
                    Move from location/house
                    Assert self to deflect their comments (oh wow. Hm. I'm sorry. What a mess! I have to go.)
                    Accept the money will never be seen again. (they have entitlement issues)
                    Accept that your "help" (nudge towards assistance, ideas, thoughts) will not be used.
                    Get started on paperwork/legwork to stall or decrease loan payments (contact bank/loan people. May need copy of paystubs and bank statements.)
                    Get started on legwork to move out. (hostel, friend, room?)
                    Get 2nd job, stay away from house more?
                    Get PO box, make it easier for mail if you couch surf.
                    Make sure you take PC or your info is saved somewhere. Not on the machine if it stays.
                    Make sure none of the bills are in your name. (People will put other SSNs on bills as co-payers or such to let the account start)
                    Get food stamps, start container garden, use food bank (for yourself) That will save cash on your end to save up for moveout or something.
                    Keep cash away from household.
                    Go through clothing/room/possessions and start the Keep Toss Donate job. Thin the herd, much easier to take what you need. This household will implode, storage is not feasible here.(when packing boxes, write on sides and top)
                    If you have car, do your best to make sure it's in decent health. I know, that costs money. Barter or trade if you have to. You're gonna have to hustle (not speed, bargain) to get better in this situation. Logic here: if you leave with car, and it breaks, you might have to go back. Do Not Want.

                    This is some serious shit I'm talking about. I've had to do this too many times, I've moved a lot and have had to improve my money management. it's hard to change so much; but I think you'll need to do quite a few of those to get what you need.
                    In my heart, in my soul, I'm a woman for rock & roll.
                    She's as fast as slugs on barbituates.

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                    • #11
                      Quoth Der Cute View Post
                      Ralerin:

                      Get food stamps, start container garden, use food bank (for yourself) That will save cash on your end to save up for moveout or something.
                      Keep cash away from household.
                      Go through clothing/room/possessions and start the Keep Toss Donate job. Thin the herd, much easier to take what you need. This household will implode, storage is not feasible here.(when packing boxes, write on sides and top)
                      All of you are forgiven.

                      I applied for foodstamps a little while ago and the application was rejected before it hit the person in charge's desk because I make too much money. Apparently they don't take the $50,000 in student loan debt or the me paying $400/month for medicine and chiropractic visits. Yet I get free care through <hospital> because I don't make enough money. I can starve but at least my medical bills won't cost me zillions!

                      And you must have read my mind about Keep/Toss/Donate. I wonder what I can do with the literally 20 boxes of books I've collected over the years, besides donation or sell online; I'd like to get some money back for those books and no one is biting through ebay much.
                      Success is not final, failure is not fatal: It is the courage to continue that counts.-Winston Churchill

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                      • #12
                        Quoth ralerin View Post
                        All of you are forgiven.


                        And you must have read my mind about Keep/Toss/Donate. I wonder what I can do with the literally 20 boxes of books I've collected over the years, besides donation or sell online; I'd like to get some money back for those books and no one is biting through ebay much.
                        Also try Half.com and if you have a half price books in your area they will buy a lot of books and donate the rest.
                        Coffee should be strong, black and chewy! It should strip paint and frighten small children.

                        My blog Darkwynd's Musings

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                        • #13
                          You're in a bad way, but there is always light at the end of the tunnel.

                          Look into low income housing in your area. It's usually not great, but it beats the street. They should be able to work within your income. There are charities that are able to help with bills and such as well.

                          Reapply for food stamps. You should be able to show your loans and medical expenses on the application.

                          Talk to your loan agency. You should be able to lessen or refinance your loans to a lower payment, lower interest rate or both; the caveat there is it will take much longer to pay them off.

                          If you are able to get generic meds, that can help a lot with the cost. Talk to the Doctor and Pharmacist.

                          Used book stores might be able to take your books, for an amount you will likely cry over. But if you can't take them then they are no help either.

                          All in all, bug out while you can. A bike or scooter could work for you if there is no car and public transport can give lowered fairs if you have a low income.
                          Good luck.
                          To ensure it does not happen again, we have changed our slogan to "F%#k you, I'm eating!" ----- Irving Patrick Freleigh

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