Would you be a SC if...

[jedimaster91]

Ugh. I'm preparing to buy a used car in the next few months, myself >_> Good tips ^_^

We've bought all our cars used and we've bought them all private party. Recently we looked into buying a new car, but we got so frustrated with the dealer, we walked out. Shame, too, because I really like Nissans. Sales Guy kept asking what we wanted to pay per month, Mr Jedi just wanted to know the sticker price of the car. And 'round and 'round we went. He and I both understood that the final price of the car would depend on what interest rate we were eligible for (and through our bank it was a pretty low rate if I recall), how fast we could pay down the principle, and what (if any) add-ons we got. All we wanted was a ballpark sticker price for the basic car so that we could gauge how much it was going to affect our budget. Even after a couple hours we couldn't get a straight answer from Sales Guy.

In our experience, dealing with private party sales is a lot less hassle. People are generally pretty upfront with any problems the car might have and usually willing to negotiate depending on how badly they want to get rid of the car. We bought my VW Passat from a dealer and the POS has been nothing but trouble since we bought it. I can't tell you how much money we've dumped into the thing and it still has an oil leak that even the import specialists can't seem to completely plug.

We also have an auto auction locally. It's a gamble. In theory you could pick up a great car for a great bargain. Or you end up with a car that has a bad transmission like we did. >.< Mr Jedi's kinda hoping the seller doesn't send us the title so we can get a refund.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Yeah, I'm earmarking this thread. I've been driving the same car for 12-13 years at this point, a four-door 99 Honda Civic sedan. It's been good to me, but it's old enough now that if I need something replaced, it's going to be an overnight hold at the garage while they get the parts shipped in.

I'm gonna be getting a new car soonish, so I'll keep some of the ideas in this thread in mind. (Even though I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking with either a newer Civic or an Accord. People keep suggesting an SUV to me, but I like the gas mileage of the cars better.)

[mjr]

Yeah, I'm earmarking this thread. I've been driving the same car for 12-13 years at this point, a four-door 99 Honda Civic sedan. It's been good to me, but it's old enough now that if I need something replaced, it's going to be an overnight hold at the garage while they get the parts shipped in.

I'm gonna be getting a new car soonish, so I'll keep some of the ideas in this thread in mind. (Even though I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking with either a newer Civic or an Accord. People keep suggesting an SUV to me, but I like the gas mileage of the cars better.)

If I had the money, I would SERIOUSLY consider one of these...

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

Of course, I'd still need a gas car...but still...

[kpzra]

We had to go to another state to get the truck we wanted, but it was before diesels were popular. Hubby was AD Army so we'd drive at night to look for the specific truck we wanted (most security guards didn't mind as long as we let them escort us around). We found the truck and drove back the next day to talk to a sales person. Right off the bat he said he knew about the vehicle (Silverado) except the engine (Duramax) but he'd grab a mechanic if we had any specific questions about it (the engine was only a few years old at that point). We'd been test driving/researching different ones so we knew a bit about them already but we liked that he was honest about it.

A few hours later we drove off with our new truck for $20k LESS that sticker price. What took the longest was them doing an inspection on the Dakota we were trading in. They even let us take the Silverado to go get lunch (they paid). We got some business cards and left/gave them to the guys getting back from the deployment. Last I heard 5 guys had gone there to get vehicles because they didn't give anyone any BS (the manager was retired Army).

[csquared]

There are hundreds of book out on "How to Buy a Car". Non of those suggestions are guaranteed to work. None are guaranteed to fail. It all boils down to the nature of the dealership and the individual salesman (and what they think they can get away with). Plus, the longer you are willing to negotiate, the better price you will get. Or the reverse, the more you are willing to pay, the faster you will get out. Offer list price, cash. You will get out as fast as you can sign the papers.

I think the longest I spent was two hours (negotiating, not including test drive). The shortest was half an hour (I did not get e very good deal, but I was in no place to negotiate). What works in my favor is an 800+ credit score.

Couple of stories. Let's see if I can keep these short.

The Wife wanted a new car. I had just read one of "those" books. Let's try something. The book said that you should never but a car before dinner. The salesman will use that against you and wear you down. I used it against him. When the negotiations weren't going they way I wanted, I turned to The Wife and said "I'm hungry. Let's go get dinner." I did that a few times. When the salesman did the "I'll go ask the manager" number, I gave him 5 minutes, then got up and walked out of his office. He came running back. We finally got up and walked out. As we were getting in the car, he came out and gave us the offer we wanted. That was the two hour event.

I totaled my car. I called around to a number of dealerships looking for the vehicle I wanted (this was before the web). I wanted a passenger van. When I got there, I was asked "Did you want a cargo van?" They only had one passenger van. Fully loaded. List was $5K higher than the model I wanted and it was BLACK. I live in Atlanta. I do not want a black vehicle. Test drove it just the same. I have the number in my head that I want to pay for the model I wanted. I tell him that I am not sure I can afford this model. He says "Let me see what I can do." Comes back a couple minutes later with a price that is $2k LOWER than the price I was willing to pay for the model I wanted. BUT I DON"T WANT A BLACK CAR! I'll think about it and get back to you. I go home and call back all the other dealerships. "Just to be clear, a passenger van, not a cargo van." Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. No one had one. This was the only one withing 100 miles of Atlanta. I bought it. I made him knock $50.00 off his offer just for spite. And every summer for eight years, that thing got SOOOO HOT. Good thing it had dual AC. Total time at the dealership was about an hour.

[hinakiba777]

When I buy a car I will have to keep these things in mind. I have never bought one. Not even the two cars I OWNED. The first car my dad just brought me with him to pick up, no AC, No power locks, No Power windows, and I hated the colour. But that was a surprise. Soon became my brothers car he totaled over the course of 4 years.

The second car I got I did a TON or research, visited tons of dealerships, spent months finding the perfect car. Actually traveled 2.5 hours from home to go to a private dealership my aunt uses. Found a GREAT car. Power locks, Power Windows, Hathchback, and most importantly AC. Made a potential deal, and thought we'd lock it up. Then dad decided he didn't want to. Then he made a deal on Brubari (metalic blue 2005 Aveo), but he actually had me come in to test drive it before we closed the deal. He got a lot of free stuff tossed in, and i loved the car. Also it was my favorite colour, fuel efficient, and a hatchback but again, No Powerlocks, no Powerwindows, No AC. Summers were hell. But when I moved to the city my dad started driving my car, and he learned what summers without AC are like.

The Third car I get will be a graduation present when I finish university in... I think 2016 is the new date. So again, I won't get to participate in the deal, as it will be a present. I'm just hoping that whatever it is, it's got AC. Maybe power locks and windows. What I want is a Chevy Trax It's larger yet more fuel efficient than the Aveo. Plus by 2016 I can get a 2013 for pretty cheap.

Though I don't think I'll be buying myself a car until like 2025 or something. Unless my parents put my graduation present in my father's name and he takes it...

[Jester]

My best advice is to go in there with the idea that, if you don't see anything you like, or they fuck with you, you're just gonna walk. I don't know about this five and a half hours at each dealership crap, but I know when I bought my previous truck, I took my friend The Mechanic with me (wanna guess what he does for a living?), and we hit a whole shitload of places. Between my no-nonsense attitude and knowledge of sales tactics, having grown up in a marketing family, and his knowledge of cars, we were in and out of the lesser dealerships rather quickly.

One memorable exchange was late in the evening, after the sun had gone down, so we only had the lot lights to see anything by. After I'd been talking to the salesman about one car in particular, Mechanic, who had not said much up to this point, piped up.

MECHANIC: "Has this car ever been in an accident?"
SALESMAN: "Nope."
MECHANIC: "Then why has it been repainted?"
JESTER:
SALESMAN: "Um, what?"
MECHANIC: "Yeah, you can see it here...and here....and here."
SALESMAN: [backpedaling like a major league centerfielder]
US: "Later!"

And we were gone.

Ask me some other time about some of the utter bullshit I've dealt with while car shopping.

[Zellie Crescent]

When my car decides to finally completely crap out on me and die I'm bringing my mom with me to help me get a new one, one of her uncles was a mechanic and she used to work for him for a while. Between her uncle and her father she knows more about cars than my dad.

[Skarredmind]

I do all my rsearch ahead of time. By the time I get to the dealership, I've already narrowed my choices down to 3 or 4 cars and what options I want. Trip one: test drive. I hit all of the models I want, and if it means multiple delaerships, fine. Once I've decided on which car, I deal with my bank for financing, and research packages (so I get the options I want) and costs. Then it's time for trip two. I walk in and say "I want car X with option package Y in color Z. How soon can you get it?"

QFT on this but I actually take it one step further (and it only works on new cars so far as my experience goes.) I email all of the dealerships that I'd be *WILLING TO* drive to, and I have the local dealership, that I am planning to buy at. I get the quote from each dealership, then take the best offer to the one I plan to deal with and say, "This is what so and so quoted, can you do it?" They *ALWAYS* say yes, if not though the answer is, "Thanks anyway!" and move on to the second choice.

By this point, the test drive is the only *REAL* sales opportunity for the dealer, everything else is simple. The dealers I've dealt with usually love it because I walk in, say, I want the Yugo Koral, at this price, and its either, Yes or No. With financing in hand all we do is sign the papers and drive off.

[Pimento]

I've worked as a car salesman. And will provide advice in private.


Honestly. Research the top 3 cars you want. Then find a dealership for each. Then go drive them and find out which works best for you.

The multiple quote system sucks as a salesperson. We don't want to give them to you. Why? If you're looking at a Honda. They give you no room to budge. Nissan? I promise you if you've bought one or know someone who has. They walked out feeling like they gotta good deal....but goth screwed. Toyota? Same as Honda. Sticker price is basically it. I've sold Hondas. Hyundai/Nissan/Subaru/Mitsubishi and dodge. I can tell you that as far as ethics go. Honda is the most transparent company and it is IMPOSSIBLE for the dealership to screw the customer. Hell. Honda will not allow you to charge anything extra other than the basics everyone offers.

Nissan? Well. The DEALER prints the window stickers. Often you'll see a line that says "markup" right on it. So it'll be:

Price: xxxxx.xx
Markup: yyyy.yy
Final price: zzzzz.zz

That markup line is the old "awe they're being honest" trick so you feel good if they take $2-3000 off. Meanwhile that money is all yours and the "price" also has markup in it lol. Commission on a fully loaded $52,000 Honda pilot was about $1500. Commission on a $34,000 Nissan Titan.....$5,000 lol so there's a reason different brands do different business. If I'm selling Nissan. I'll show you huuuuge discounts, cause I've got the room to play. If I'm selling a Honda. I've got to fight for every penny.

I know car salesmen have a bad rap. But there's a good reason that they try to build rapport and spend time with you. Sales are important.

So ultimately: decide what you want and go visit. Don't just jump at the best quote with the most cash off. There's waaaaay more to owning a car than what you pay. And my good customers got service for way longer than that one day.

[mjr]

This is not meant to offend, or venture into fratching territory, but it does raise some interesting questions...

I know car salesmen have a bad rap. But there's a good reason that they try to build rapport and spend time with you. Sales are important.

I understand building a rapport with someone. But honestly, if I buy a car from a dealership, then return there several years later, there's a high likelihood that the original salesperson I dealt with is no longer there. Correct?

And not to sound like a cynic, but a salesman usually doesn't care about you in a genuine sense. What they care about is your money. So small talk, trying to build that (temporary) rapport is nice and all, but the ultimate goal is for the sales guy to make a sale, so he can get a commission.

I could probably contact the Honda dealer where I bought my Accord back in 2005 and ask for the sales guy I dealt with, and he probably wouldn't be there any more.

Additionally, I know that the sales are commissioned, but that doesn't mean (necessarily) that the salespeople have to act like vultures circling carrion, does it? I pulled into a dealership once, and by the time I got my car parked and got out, a sales guy was already headed my way.

I mean, I know salespeople need to feed their families too, but some of the things like that make people very uncomfortable. The phrase "high pressure" comes to mind. If I'm on the lot, let me browse. If I have questions or I'm interested in a particular vehicle or vehicles, I'll come and get you.

And honestly, what's with the "I'll have to go talk to my manager". I still don't get that.

And my good customers got service for way longer than that one day.

You know, the last couple of cars I bought, they NEVER followed up with me beyond the cursory "Thanks for buying the car...if you need anything let us know." kind of thing. Perhaps that's on me. Maybe I wasn't a "good customer" to them. Who knows.

And additionally, a lot of these dealerships don't seem to keep very good records, or are terrible at marketing to people with paid off cars. We get these fake "email" looking advertisements sent to us about how they can get us into a car for less than what we're paying now. Hello!! Our cars are paid off!! You, by definition, can't get us into a new car for less than what we're paying now! It should be in your records that the car you're talking about is paid off!

A few months back, my wife got a flier from a place where we bought her 2005 Altima. We bought it used, and paid cash for it.

Well, the flier basically said, "Call us, we can help you get into a new car for less than you're paying now!!!"

Well, I know this is probably mean, but she called them up, mentioned the ad, and then asked, "Well, can you beat $0 per month??"

She also got one recently that said they'd "been trying to contact her". No one from that dealership, or any other similar one, has tried contacting us. I also recently got one where they misspelled my name. My first name. And it's really not hard to spell, at all. It's a somewhat unusual name that you don't see every day, but it's got a rather conventional spelling.

I don't know if they think their customers/potential customers are stupid, or what. Every time we get one of these we have to laugh now.

To me, the whole process seems painful. And I think it's obvious enough to car dealers that they're actually acknowledging it in some of their ads. "Come on down to Steve's Honda!! We're not a pain in the rear like those other dealers!!"

Also, see my other post (I think it's on page 2 of this thread) about the dealership that's actually advertising a "2 hour" in and out, but only if you go through their "Internet Department".

[Pimento]

It depends on the sales person. It is a competitive market. So some guys like to pounce on people to "tag" that customer. I never did it that way. I kept impeccable records and sent customers an email at 6 weeks, and 6 months. If they treated me well I'd give them a hand written letter with a service deal at one year and two years.

Now. Keep in mind. Often times (especially with the brands that force it) you have to have managers who will fire the person with the lowest sakes, or write you up fir not running out there to at least greet you.

Now. Look at all the posts of people on this site who hate selling store cards at checkout. Or who get yelled at for the "greet customers within X amount of feet" rule.

Same deal. Guess what. Car salesmen usually hate doing it too. I know I did. If you really knew how the financing and prep to a sold car works. I think you'd cut some slack. I mean. I've gone from greeting to my customer rolling off the lot in 30 minutes. But if you want your car detailed, if you want any extras applied, and if you want a proper delivery, it's gonna take time. Hell. Guess what? There's a check list for a proper delivery as well. And to go through it all takes about an hour to an hour and a half. And it's tied into customer survey scores. Which are important to doing your job.

[mjr]

It depends on the sales person. It is a competitive market.

Oh, I understand it's a highly competitive market. Even though, I think there's a "right" way and a "wrong" way to do it. I'm sort of reminded of the episode of "King of the Hill" where Hank's associates were making fun of him for having slow sales, due to his sales style, but he actually ended up with more sales and fewer cancellations because his sales style was much less pushy than the other guys.

So some guys like to pounce on people to "tag" that customer.

I'm not saying every sales guy is like this. I just really, really don't like this approach.

I never did it that way. I kept impeccable records and sent customers an email at 6 weeks, and 6 months. If they treated me well I'd give them a hand written letter with a service deal at one year and two years.

It's good that you kept impeccable records. Did the dealerships that you worked for? Because I think a dealership ought to know if a car is paid for, especially if it's paid for in cash. In that case, it makes no sense to send an ad saying "we can lower your payments."

especially with the brands that force it ...write you up fir not running out there to at least greet you.

In my opinion, then, that is a bad business practice.

If you really knew how the financing and prep to a sold car works. I think you'd cut some slack.

I'm generally pretty open-minded with things like that. Fill me in.

But if you want your car detailed, if you want any extras applied, and if you want a proper delivery, it's gonna take time.

I'm not sure I understand this. Aren't the cars clean already? I mean, aside from gassing them up and washing them (15 minutes??) what else would need to be done? I mean barring "extras" that are applied.

And still, what's up with the "I have to go talk to my manager" with certain things? How much leeway do salespeople actually have?? I don't understand this.

[Pimento]

The manager has to approve every deal. Most dealerships the sakes guy finds the car and then the sakes person has to go and get the numbers written out for them. At bare minimum they have to see the manager for any discounting/promises.

As for cleaning the car. Ever place I've been to washes and power polishes the car. Does a complete interior detail including sometimes q-tipping the little crannies. Not only that but the detailed sometimes have between 6 and 20 vehicles lined up.

And yes. Slow sales tactics work well in a lot of industries. But often times you're paid a minimum of $1000 a month. To earn money you have to earn more than that to make a buck. Most dealers make you pay your minimum first. Then you start earning extra. So at Honda if I wanted to make a measly $2000 a month. That's 10-15 vehicles. More like 20 if there's negotiating. That's almost one vehicle per day IF I want a day off (most of the time you have to work every day but Sunday).

So a vehicle a day. Usually you close 1 out of every 15-20 people talked to within a month of them talking to you. So the idea is to talk to as many people as you can as fast as you can. Cause only one out of every 10 are serious buyers. And you're competing with all the other dealerships for that one customer. So you want to say hi first to get rid of the competition in the dealership. Then you want to spend time and make friends with them to put you ahead of the other sales guys.

[mjr]

The manager has to approve every deal. At bare minimum they have to see the manager for any discounting/promises.

So the sales guy doesn't really have any leeway at all, without the manager's approval?

As for cleaning the car. Ever place I've been to washes and power polishes the car. Does a complete interior detail including sometimes q-tipping the little crannies. Not only that but the detailed sometimes have between 6 and 20 vehicles lined up.

Ok, well, that's somewhat understandable then.

So at Honda if I wanted to make a measly $2000 a month. That's 10-15 vehicles. More like 20 if there's negotiating. That's almost one vehicle per day IF I want a day off (most of the time you have to work every day but Sunday).

I've actually known/seen people who will park next to a dealership on Sunday, and go onto the lot (because there's nobody there) to look at the vehicles.

So you want to say hi first to get rid of the competition in the dealership. Then you want to spend time and make friends with them to put you ahead of the other sales guys.

I wouldn't necessarily call it "making friends". But I understand you want the sale.

Also, I've heard that car salesmen hate it when a person negotiates down a price, and then says, "Oh, by the way, I'm paying cash and I have a trade-in."

I think next time I'm going to do as much of the process as I can online.

But doesn't that make negotiating a price more difficult?