300 how I hate thee

[RayvenQ]

To be honest I didn't really find that bit all that funny, infact, I didn't find it funny whatsoever.

[artcurmudgeon]

300 is just another example of a good story made into a good movie and suddenly the idiots grasping ahold of it as if it were canon law..

Now before I finish this rant, please let me explain that I have studied medieval armour and combat techniques for about 20 years, and have built quite a bit of armour. Even though this is no longer something that interests me, I have more stories than anyone could imagine about stupid people....

Examples of what I have seen.

1)a kid who claimed once during a fighter practice that he had a secret technique handed down from his Japanese/scottish ninja ancestors. basically this was a front dive into a roll, and then to come out with a thrust. this got shot down by the local fencing captain putting his schlager in the the kids back 3 times in a row. Kid couldnt figure out why it didnt work...

2)being told that the vikings all(yes all) fought with wooden swords because this person knew it was how it was. no documentation, no evidence, but he knew better than anyone else. (including a ph.d in history)

3)a kid got invited to local fighter practice, announced that his father was a fencing mistro and a samurai master. Told us he would be happy to train us. He was put into a 3 weapon mask, padding, gloves and a shinai. Told him the rules where and when the marshal said lay on, we could begin. Lay on was called and after he got hit in the head, all he could say was he wasnt ready.

4) same guy from #3, gave him a schlager. tried to stand like he was taking a pee, and couldnt figure out why were able to hit him...

5)was asked to build a set of articulated legs that were as close to a specific suit of henryV period armour. First thing this guy does is drop to his knees, which jack up his knees and tore up his clothes. He starts screaming that they are crap and no good for sca combat. I handed him a copy of his email(after I cleaned him up), and asked him where did he mention the armour was for sca combat(it didnt)..

6)went to a rendezvous, was wearing a nice kilt, tunic and gillie brogues. I was confronted by someone wearing a kilt, moccasin boots and bud light and was told that I didnt know what the hell I was doing and I needed to get it right or get out.

Any more, I dont tell anyone I know anything about stuff like this. It seems the older I get the patience I have for anyone elses historical fantasy bs...

[draggar]

announced that his father was a fencing mistro and a samurai master.

AH, a sign of a true BS artist - sadly not a very good one.

[RayvenQ]

1. Hahah I'l ladmit I know sod all about Medieval Fighting techniques, but hell, even I know that is a bad plan leaving yourself entirely open.

2. Hell, I doubt vikings even used wooden swords for training.

3. Ahaha

4. Use the Schwartz!


Methinks you'll love this guys videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/lindybeige

They're hilarious and pretty much stick it to anyone who believes the fantasy BS.

I'm more of an Imperial Roman military buff than anything else, though I do know a bit about Greek stuff around that time too. Funnily enough their tactics weren't too dissimilar, hide behind a big shield and poke with your pointy thing (And if that's what they did in the bedroom, imagine what they did on the battlefield!

I visibly cringed when, in the opening of Gladiator, Maximus used his Gladius to slash/chop.

[TheSHAD0W]

The Thespians simply refused to leave.

Well, obviously not, after all the rehearsing they'd done the play just HAD to go on!

[lobo94]

And for the lighter take on 300-I refer you to "Meet the Spartans."

Though I don't think I'll ever look at Gloria Gaynor's "I Will Survive" in quite the same way again.

to Artcurmudgeon-well, the kid you described is probably going to grow up to be a wannabe Special Forces soldier, Airborne Ranger, or Navy Seal, telling how he won the war doing black operations so secret that there is no official record. All sorts of hand to hand and weapons skills, decorations for valor, the whole nine yards.

There are ways to put wannabes in their place, as you have demonstrated.

"Uncle Lobo, what did you do in the war?"

"Well, there I was in the desert, fixing trucks, standing guard duty, pulling KP..."

[AccountingDrone]

And for the lighter take on 300-I refer you to "Meet the Spartans."

Though I don't think I'll ever look at Gloria Gaynor's "I Will Survive" in quite the same way again.

I love that movie ... probably better than the original

[RayvenQ]

Man, my imagination ran wild today, I imagined both Leonidas and Marneus Calgar (charachter from 40K) both singing The Impossible Dream

[Jester]

basically this was a front dive into a roll, and then to come out with a thrust. this got shot down by the local fencing captain putting his schlager in the the kids back 3 times in a row. Kid couldnt figure out why it didnt work...

For those of us who know squat about fighting techniques, why didn't this work?

4) same guy from #3, gave him a schlager. tried to stand like he was taking a pee, and couldnt figure out why were able to hit him...

Two questions: first, again, why doesn't this work, and secondly, what is a schlager? I ask for a personal reason, as Schlager has been one of my nicknames in my life (due to my love of and ability to drink copious amounts of Goldschlager).

[RayvenQ]

Schlager is a gemran duelling sword, I think.

http://www.medieval-weaponry.co.uk/a...W1098Close.jpg

As for rolling, while I know squat, I can see how it wouldn't work, not only is rolling slower than a step forward and thrust, but when you roll, you can't see your opponent, you can't defend yourself, leaving you entirely exposed and vulnerable to being hit. While you're doing your roll, your opponent can easily sidestep, totally messing your aim.

Plus you look like a complete tool if you do roll and thrust.

[Jester]

Plus you look like a complete tool if you do roll and thrust.

Only in sword fighting. In other, um, "activities," that can be just the ticket.

[mikoyan29]

I hated the movie because there were no scenes of Spartans drinking heavily and then burning couches....

[artcurmudgeon]

answers, answers...

Actually Rayven got it exactly right....

This tool didn't realize that in tucking your head down that you loose sight of your opponent. And I was evil enough to take advantage of this....LOL

Vikings might have trained with wooden weapons, the term for this is a waster..http://www.woodenswords.com/WMA/index.htm

I am old enough and realize in my declining years that I dont know everything, but I do know enough to call "BS!"...

Jester, if you roll and thrust and your aim isn't true, it give meaning to being in deep shit...

Miko, those were in the deleted scenes...

[lordlundar]

first, again, why doesn't this work,

tried to stand like he was taking a pee

I'm interpreting this as holding the blade point down as opposed to point up. While great for a a first block on the legs, competitive dueling only counts touches above the waist, and you can't get the blade up in time to parry. If it's point up, your hands are still below the waist, which means they have to move a lot more to get in a position to parry.

Basically, General combat uses very few maneuvers that that style could be useful as an opening counter. Duels on the other hand use several, and most of them see that position as an easy target.

[ApolloSZ]

As far as I know (not alot being new) German/English fencing does have a hands down low, sword tip up (at the opponents face) stance - Its is a basic one and not the ultimate defence how ever.

I think the english name is "Iron Gate" - But I could be horribly wrong.

Oh and Rayven - Picture Russ singing "I will survive" while wearing his Cloak of Morkai