Tried to be a gentleman long ago...

[Plaidman]

Yeah, and your opinions in it that it's completely the males problem if he cannot get a date. Doesn't matter about the woman. Completely and utterly his.

And your wrong about me wanting another to just not be single btw, though it does seem like that. I'd even admit that.

But I've been in love with a many women who want nothing to do with me in that fashion. It's fine in the end, because they are all far more happier with anyone else other then me, and I cannot fault that at all.

I may fall to easily, but I do generally care for every one of my female friends, and even the ones that hurt me the most I still try to watch out for. (Let me guess, that means I'm stalker right?).

Will I ever date? Unlikely. Not ever. Doesn't mean I can't be pissed about it. Doesn't mean I'm dating wrong.

Choosing to be alone is one thing. Loneliness is another. Loneliness can kill, and greatly shorten ones life.

Loneliness doesn't even mean you have to HAVE a SO. Just the QUALITY of the relationships you do have isn't what you need. You can have female loves and be with another that does NOT require sex, or even cuddling, hugs, kisses whatever. As long as you feel respected and you respect others.

Being with an SO is just being with a best friend that cares for you more then your other friends. Not ever having that connection makes you feel worst and worst.

It isn't a cure all. Not by far. But you can be happier. Far happier then you were without it. That confidence and attacthment may even help you gain yourself the SO you need. All that from a female friend that you at least felt loved you, even if it was a platontic way.

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

Yeah, and your opinions in it that it's completely the males problem if he cannot get a date. Doesn't matter about the woman. Completely and utterly his.

I believe I clarified earlier that I'm only arguing the other side, since most of the time all the blame is put on the FEMALE.

Yeah, not fun, is it?

But I've been in love with a many women who want nothing to do with me in that fashion. It's fine in the end, because they are all far more happier with anyone else other then me, and I cannot fault that at all.

I may fall to easily, but I do generally care for every one of my female friends, and even the ones that hurt me the most I still try to watch out for. (Let me guess, that means I'm stalker right?).

Not a stalker, unless you're following them home without them knowing and peek into their bedroom windows to make sure they tucked themselves in safe and sound.

You mention that you keep falling in love, and that you probably do so too easily. Yeah, that sounds like an issue that requires addressing if it results in you getting hurt time and time again.

To the point of hostility. *ahem*

Being with an SO is just being with a best friend that cares for you more then your other friends. Not ever having that connection makes you feel worst and worst.

It isn't a cure all. Not by far. But you can be happier. Far happier then you were without it. That confidence and attacthment may even help you gain yourself the SO you need. All that from a female friend that you at least felt loved you, even if it was a platontic way.

That is 100% bullshit. This has been looked into, and a new relationship offers a temporary high, which fades over time, and everyone is back to the happy level they were at BEFORE THE RELATIONSHIP. One special person can't make you happy in the long run, friend or lover.

It's a horrible cliche, but it's true: you have to love yourself first.

[Plaidman]

And the funny thing is? It isn't a 100 % bullshit. You do not know everyone. You are not a psychologist. You do not study people emontions, your a cartoonist.

Just trying to ask someone out is a huge mix of chemicals, subtle hints and clues because everyone is just that different from the next. Does the temporary high fade over time? Yes. Does it affect all people exactly the same? No. Some have it last forever. Some last only minutes. Each friend I make? I do get happier and love myself more. I don't immedity lose it all after a bit of time. To some people, its far easier to love yourself if you feel that you are loved. If noone loves you, if you are your only person and noone loves you, then it's extremly difficult to even think a single reason of why you should love yourself. No-one else does, so why is there a reason?

When I did have a relationship, I did love myself more. I was more confident in life, even if my interactions with her were minimal at best. It wasn't a temporay high. Even relationships that are only through text, are far better then nonexist relations.

I don't blame all girls. It is guys problems fault too. See the difference? Both are at fault. Not one or the other. People make mistakes. People get hurt because we are human, and none want to be lonely. We all want to feel loved.

And I wasn't following her home. They live too far away for me to get there, not unless I want to drive for hours, or days, (or hope a plane for those that live in other countries).

I don't show hositially to a girl just because she didn't want to date me. It does suck, but fine. I'm not her type. Big whoop. No different from any other girl that I'm not the type. She still wants to be my friend, so yay at that.


Just being in a relationship can change a person's outlook completely. Sometimes it's perment. All they needed was that push. Doesn't mean that's everyone. But it doesn't mean it cannot happen.

[Eireann]

Maybe I can add a little here.

I discovered, after a LOT of heartache and disappointment, that it all came down to me where dating was concerned. I thought (like far too many other people) that I just HAD to be in a relationship in order to be "whole". I couldn't possibly just work on myself and my own life, have my friends, and do what I liked to do. I had to be part of a couple.

So, that led to the sharks swimming around, because they could smell the blood in the water. They were the worst of the worst, and they knew they could take advantage of me, because I gave off that vibe. I wasn't smart enough. I wasn't nice enough. I wasn't attractive enough. I wasn't thin enough. You name it, that's what I believed about myself. The sharks know how to move in and attack. They kept me in that negative mindset, because if I believed that I was a better person, I wouldn't want to be with them. When I finally did end things with one, he kept badgering me to "come back", not because he cared about me, but because I was a habit.

If we, all of us, can't be happy by ourselves, we can't expect anyone else to make us happy. I wouldn't get involved with a guy whose happiness, or lack thereof, were pinned entirely on me. That's a hell of a load to carry, and it's why the "If you leave, I'll kill myself" threat is sometimes given. Having a partner doesn't make us better people, or more intelligent, or better-rounded.

It's when we focus on what's good in our lives that we attract more of it. This doesn't mean just people. It's everything. We create our own reality, and if we constantly say, "I'm no good, nobody likes me for who I am, I can't be happy without a boyfriend/girlfriend, nobody wants to date me, I can't get what I want," that's exactly what will happen.

I'm not in a relationship. I don't "have" to be in one. Would I like to be? Yes, if he's right for me. I view it as a process of elimination. I have yet to meet the man with whom I really click, and this is good; I know quite a few guys in the "non-click" category, and I'm not going to beat myself up over it. If we're not right for each other, we're not right for each other, and it's always best to know this immediately. This doesn't mean we can't be on a friendly, non-romantic footing.

Yes, it is a cliche, and yes, it's true, that you have to love yourself first. If you don't love who you are, how can anyone else do it?

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

Plaid, studies HAVE been done, and I have READ them. You don't have to run the experiments yourself to understand the validity.

And you're giving off some pretty hostile vibes towards me, is what I"m saying. What I have said and am saying is if a person--any person-- keeps getting the same results from many different people, there's a common factor, and it's not everyone else.

[Plaidman]

Right. Everyone knows the conclusion. I'm not dateable. I'm friend. Big whoop. I've know that for a long time now. Doesn't mean I cannot be angry and hurt by it though.

I've read the same studies. But like all studies, they did not do every single person in the entire world in the entire history of time. Studies show new things every time a study is done. Sometimes with completely different results, because people are different right down to brain chemistery.

As for the whole people saying they'd kill themselves if you'd leave them, let them know to do it on a friday or something so they'd at least get their final paycheck. Followed by your not going to their funeral. Later.

It's is a bullshit excuse to put your happiness on another person's shoulder. This does not mean the act of being with someone doesn't make you happy and changes you to love yourself. There is a difference between the two, though I guess it's just too subtle for you to get. Just like studies between ten thousand people does not equate to the entire world. Doesn't take in to factors since as history of romance, body makeup, family history, how you were raised, religious beliefs, outlook on life, the location you are, or even culture differences. There just far to many to put in a single equation that just declares a single fact that being in a romance does not equal happiness.

After all, if it never did make someone happy? Then it wouldn't be needed in life. No-one would be in a relationship. People go into relationships because it DOES make them happier then without it.

Then again, if you just belive studies, what else studies do you belive? Studies have been done that Pot does not have anything negative effects. Studies have also shown that it does. Studies have shown that video game violence make kids more likely to go apeshit, just like studies have shown it doesn't. Studies have shown that candy makes you fat, just like studies have shown that a candy diet can make you thin. (SInce it's all based on calories and excersise in the end anyway).

Billions of studies are done. Not all of them are exactly the same.

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

There's a reason no one accepts a single study and calls it done. Experiments and studies are done and redone to try and factor out more and more data that might affect the outcome.

But if you know a study that shows entering a relationship can make someone happy forever and ever, give me the info, by all means. I'll read it and get back to you with an updated opinion on the matter.

I do not know of any myself, and have never seen what you are claiming occur. So, I must ask, where do you get the idea that it does happen? Do you know people? Heard from others who know such couples? If you know something I don't know, please share.

[Plaidman]

Never said there was a study done on it. Just like you admit though, studies do have to be redone over and over and never really done.

I did enter a relationship. I was happier. Even though we were in different states. It was never on her to make me happy.

Never stated that entering a relationship make someone happy forever and ever. I just stated that it can make someone happy, feel better about themselves, and in turn love themselves far more then they could before. Because now, it's at least in the back of their mind that something about them is to be loved, even if they don't know what it is.

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

Okay, but YOU admit that of all the studies relating to this topic, none has produced evidence that being in a relationship makes someone happy in the long run, correct?

And I did point out earlier that a new relationship can make someone happy, for the short term. The Honeymoon Period as it's called. A few months to... 18 months or 2 years, if I recall correctly.

But you really, REALLY can't let your sense of self-worth rely on whether or not someone loves you more than they love someone else. That relationship ended, and where are you now? Do you think there's nothing about you to be loved just because right now no one loves you?

That's how lots of women fall into abusive relationships, or just really bad ones. Seeking a sense of worth through being loved by someone else. Just read a few pages back, or the Dating Horror Stories thread. Plenty of smart, funny, hardworking, and generally amazing people have fallen into that trap.

[Plaidman]

Hardly. I know there's something to be loved about me.

People say I'm nice, when in fact I'm a jackass.

People say I'm funny.

People say they love me.

There something in me that people love. There are some things in me that I do love.

Doesn't mean, at all, that being rejected, being stood up, being laughed at and ridicled for asking someone out, doesn't sting even the least bit.

This also, doesn't mean, that it isn't like flipping a light switch when you've been not only lonely (in quality of friends) and alone (as in, none existene friends except make belive ones) the entire bulk of your life. Due to how you look, what your name is, and how you didn't get some /social/ norms, like not understanding why it's so bad for two men to hug. (Fags! Fags! They must be beaten!), not understanding why you must throw rocks at kid that always falls asleep.

I've dealt with bullies. Both against me, and others. I never followed the standard norm. My beliefs were far different from others, and being differene is what kills potentional of any friends.

Which is why, I am glad that I do have friends now. Even if it took nearly two decades to get them.

Two decades of having fake friends, in the truest word. Two decades of being ether insulted or beaten over trivial bullshit. (Seriously. My name? I get beaten and made fun of my NAME?). destroys most of your mind set of being raised. Crucial soical skills aren't learn.

Going alright cool, I love myself now doesn't happen that fast. If so many people hated you, family included, your not exactly in the right state of mind, and likely never will be regardless of how hard you've tried so far.

Did I put my selfworth in the hands of someone at a time? Yes. But it made me see parts of me that was never shown before. Made me view people differently. Made me different. More friends I get, the more quality of it? The better I do feel about myself.

People can choose to be alone, by having zero friends or a million. Because they don't feel lonely.

People can't stop being lonely, even if they have a million friends if they don't have that connection.

Connection that sense doesn't mean romantic. Even a neighbor you say hi to once a month could make people feel that less lonely.

Get enough and it destroys it all. Making up for lost time or something.

OR maybe I'm always going to feel that way. I've felt it since I was baby. I've been that. It isn't a change.

Fundementally I do love parts of me. But I hate alot of other parts. And the sad thing, that alot of parts that people that do love me, are parts that I hate.

Just cause you hate a flaw, doesnt mean that flaw is bad. I have a far to big a heart at times. I forgive people if they at least say sorry, regardless of what they've done to me. I hate that part.

But I'm rambling, and I doubt you'll get a single sentence. So I'll just shut up, and just let you go on beliving that it's completely and utterly my fault that woman will only be friends with me.

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

Why do you keep saying that's what I"m saying when I have kept saying that I'm saying something completely different?

Yes, I understand how hard it would be to develop a sense of self worth with that kind of environment (which I did not know about, seeing as I don't know much about you, and almost nothing of your life).

How long do you know these girls who laugh in your face when you ask them out? Like, do you know anything about them, or just see someone you find attractive, go up and say "Hey, wanna go out?" Can't imagine you'd ask out anyone you knew to be a harsh bitch, or be friends with someone that cruel (unless they're good at hiding it).

I'm seriously not blaming you, but something is amiss if you literally keep getting that kind of reaction.

It's also why I advocate the library and bookstore. VERY easy to get an icebreaker by asking about or commenting on what someone is reading. The title and author are right there. A chance to chat someone up and if they aren't a total bitch or vapid airhead, there's probably a cafe 2 feet away to continue the chat.

[Plaidman]

o_O That be creepy to just randomly ask some girl out that didn't know you and you didn't know them.


Here is a few of the laughter ones.

1: Lady and I on same bus every day. We've made small talk when we did have to sit near each other. After a bit she and I just did sit next to each other more out of need to talk I guess. She'd tap me awake when she got on. We talked about our day at work, or talk about some of the other random people on the bus that were intresting. We talked alot about Redwall books, and Brain Jacques in general. I did little flirts. Nothing major. I did ask eventally, if she'd like to get a cup of coffee or something at the Powells Bookstore, since we've both brought that place up. She looked at me and just started laughing. Nothing on my face. She got up and moved to a different seat. Never talked to me again.Ignored me if I tried to talk to her.

2: A fellow coworker of sorts at different store near my house. On way home, I'd stop by for the free soda allowed us all, help her watch customers. Bitch about the horribleness of corporates latest policies. She made mention that her fave pizza place was my fave place. Asked if she'd like to go with me when nether of us worked. Despite how polite and cool we were, and even though she herself would come to my store which was in opposite area where she lived (she claimed), she looked at me and snorted pepsi out laughing. I'd was the last person in the world she'd ever willingly be seen in public, let alone on a date. I didn't get that. But I never went there again.

3: Back in highschool, and the only one I asked out before I was expelled. Sat in group of people in a culinary class. We all got along great on that. One girl, Rosalina was incredible. Really defensive that people should be treated as people rather then clicques. Even though we were in a group of others, we too worked together on smaller projects that didn't need it. I asked if she'd like to have a picnic at the Rose Garden. She too laugh. Loudly. In front of everyone. Even explaining why to everyone, that little ol me was asking her out. I dropped out of that class that moment.

4: Big park near my home. With huge Oregon trees. I'd go there and in my head pretend to be a traveler back in fantasy world. Didn't carry sword, or dress up. Strictly in my mind. One day I'd see a girl sitting at a bench to feed ducks. I've noticed her a few times, and even ask if I could feed ducks with her. Like all others, talked back and forth, she even gave me a number that was fake. Should have taken that as a clue. But thinking it might have been a mistake I came back another day. Yeah, it was a mistake, and she even gave me her real number. (I missread her eight as a zero, or her zero as an eight. Don't recall). One day we're talking about fantasy books like normal, and asked her if maybe she'd like to go to this fantasy themed restraunt. It wasn't big like those medevil shows, but did have MINOR fantasy. She laughed on the phone and hung up. I called back, and she told me it was a really good idea to never call her again please.




I'd post the many others, but I'd really rather not anymore. You get the idea anyway.

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

...

Well, either Portland really IS full of bitches, or you have the worst luck ever.

Sorry, I'm just... wow, can't even imagine being that rude to someone. Someone who's worth a chat deserves, at the very least, a polite "No thank you".

Might be where the misunderstanding between us fell. The concept of talking with someone on a somewhat regular basis on friendly terms, then turning around and laughing in their face is just beyond my comprehension.

[Plaidman]

...
Sorry, I'm just... wow, can't even imagine being that rude to someone. Someone who's worth a chat deserves, at the very least, a polite "No thank you".

Likely just worst luck.

I've had plenty of girls say no thank you, or again, only friends, or I don't see you that way, or they already have someone etc. Which is fine. The bulk of those I still talk to somewhat.


Portland does have an amazing diverse people. Alot are very nice, but don't want me that way. Just a fact.

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

Welp, I still disagree that a relationship is a necessary component for happiness, but you sure as heck seem to be making your approach in a respectful manner.