Our Commune Idea

[AccountingDrone]

Jester....you just called Fresno and Bakersfield civilization .....I'm so disappointed .

I personally would not want to live in that area but that's me. Oregon probably has a ton of nice areas to choose from....and Washington too. The farther east you go the hotter and colder it can get in summer/winter....the Portland area is more wet and temperate in climate.

Randomly I found 10 acres totally flat and cleared ex farmland outside Fresno for $50 K. Shame on you Jester, didn't you know that Fresno supposedly has the highest percentage of millionaires in it's population of any city its size in the US? Grape ranching can be *highly* profitable. Rob's uncle and aunt made a 7 figure income off 200 acres of grapes back in the 70s when he lived on their farm with his mom, and all they did was sell to Sunmade.

And for housing, how about this flatpack made of predominately recycled materials, or this even more modular home that comes with a solar panel option?

I will make one suggestion when it comes to solar power or solar water ... please rethink putting the damned units on the freaking roof. You do have to periodically clean off bird shit and other detritus from the surface to maintain efficiency. Up to you, if you really like having to crawl up on the damned roof to maintain the damned panels, but when I was working on the RIT solar house project it was a major pain in the farking ass. Just saying ...

[Seshat]

Base your crop, animal, and other farming predictions on the WORST conditions on record for the general location you'll be working with. Years that you have surplus on that, use the surplus to protect your farm/commune against the worst conditions.

As you know, I live in Australia. As with South America, our climate is governed by El Nino/La Nina.

We have far too many farmers who stock their lands and plant their crops based on the wet years; since hey, it's been wet for ten or fifteen years. It's going to stay that way. Then the current switches direction, and we hit the drought half of the cycle.

They go bankrupt VERY quickly.

The smart farmers budget everything: crop quantity, livestock quantity, water use, on the drought part of the cycle. During the high water years, they do stock more livestock and grow more crops, but they use the profit from that to construct water reservoirs, feed barns, and other such long-term investments. They make plans to sell off the excess stock - and know just how much stock is excess - the moment the current changes. They invest in flood protection, fire protection and drought protection systems. They make arrangements to turn drought-hyperdried soil into soil that will hydrate again.

Now, you don't have El Nino/La Nina to content with - but you DO have long-term climate cycles; and you WILL have bad years, possibly a string of them. Budget and plan accordingly.

[XCashier]

Right now we're looking at northernish California. I don't want to live in Cali but I can stand the north part of the state. Due to some of our health reasons somewhere blue and sunny and decently warm is a must.

Perhaps southwestern Oregon? Just over the California border, it's cheaper (no sales tax, for starters) and the climate's quite nice.

[telecom_goddess]

Perhaps southwestern Oregon? Just over the California border, it's cheaper (no sales tax, for starters) and the climate's quite nice.

There you have two suggestions for Oregon thus far

[Frantic Freddie]

Now, you don't have El Nino/La Nina to content with - but you DO have long-term climate cycles; and you WILL have bad years, possibly a string of them. Budget and plan accordingly.

The heck we don't,the American southwest is in the grip of a severe drought right now due to La Niña.The last strong El Niño we had in '06-'07 resulted in floods right here in my little town that no one had seen in 50 years (Bullfrogs in Edgewood?!? It made the local news!) & we're 1000 miles inland.

But I do agree with the rest of your post.

Speakin' of my beloved New Mexico,unless you get some land that has water or irrigation rights (which are horribly expensive) you ain't growin' nothin' but cactus & rocks,we have the least surface water of all 50 states.

I will say the cholla cactus in my "yard" are doing well this year

[Seshat]

The heck we don't,the American southwest is in the grip of a severe drought right now due to La Niña.The last strong El Niño we had in '06-'07 resulted in floods right here in my little town that no one had seen in 50 years (Bullfrogs in Edgewood?!? It made the local news!) & we're 1000 miles inland.

Wow. Everything I'd ever seen/heard about El Nino and La Nina said it affected Eastern Australia, New Zealand, and Western South America. And South Pacific islands, of course.

Not that I'm disbelieving you! Major ocean currents have significant effects over quite widespead areas - I should have realised it would. Learn something every day!

[Frantic Freddie]

Wow. Everything I'd ever seen/heard about El Nino and La Nina said it affected Eastern Australia, New Zealand, and Western South America. And South Pacific islands, of course.

Not that I'm disbelieving you! Major ocean currents have significant effects over quite widespead areas - I should have realised it would. Learn something every day!

No worries mate (as y'all say ),ain't the 1st time that's happened,couple of my OL Ozzie friends thought the same thing

[Sapphire Silk]

Yeah, one of our friends mentioned the grey water system.

Right now we're looking at northernish California. I don't want to live in Cali but I can stand the north part of the state. Due to some of our health reasons somewhere blue and sunny and decently warm is a must. I threw out Arizona or New Mexico but seem to be mostly shot down right now. They all wanted Southern Cali but I so don't want to do that. We all hate Texas (ROFL) so we're still hashing location out.

I used to live in Northern California (Chico area). There are some very nice places in the Chico-Oroville area that you would probably be able to get, but bear in mind land ANYWHERE in California is still very expensive.

Any land you buy in California, esp near the mountains, needs a perc test for septic (since anything out side of cities is usually not hooked up to any kind of sewer line), and also needs water which ends up being well water. Since the aquifers tend to be very deep, and under solid rock, drilling the well can be very expensive and is not a guarantee.

OTOH, land in the valley is very fertile and as one friend of mine put it, "You drop a seed, and jump back for the tree springing up." Orchards are big there. So's rice.

The Peidmont Triad area of North Carolina (where I live now) might suit you better. As someone else pointed out, lots of farms for sale here and even though we are technically in drought conditions, we have more water than California does. Cost of living is lower, too.

[Barracuda]

I would think the mid Valley region in Oregon would be ideal. Great climate, plenty of rural areas and if you located yourself near Eugene or Salem there would be a ready market for your goods (University of Oregon is in Eugene, and there is a large artsy type community in the area.) If you prefer it a little less wet than it can be in the region during the late fall, winter, and early spring (not raining all the time, but not uncommon,) you could move into the Eastern Oregon desert region nearby. You'd also be close enough to Portland to travel up occasionally for Saturday Market, where I know you'd find people to buy your goods, the only place more open to the type of goods you'd be selling would be San Francisco. Plus, the mid Valley is excellent farmland and houses some great vineyards, as well.

[Rapscallion]

The main problem with communes is other people.

Rapscallion

[telecom_goddess]

The main problem with communes is other people.

Rapscallion

Helpful....very helpful

[XCashier]

I would think the mid Valley region in Oregon would be ideal. Great climate, plenty of rural areas and if you located yourself near Eugene or Salem there would be a ready market for your goods

Oh yes, there is. Much of the population of Eugene is original hippies, and they'd dig the commune and its goods!

[Rapscallion]

Helpful....very helpful

Sorry - I can give quite a bit more boring detail if you like.

I'm part of a worker-owned cooperative. We try for democracy as much as possible and a flat hierarchy. From someone's principles of yesteryear, we have no practical performance management. We have a flat-rate wage per hour for every piece of work, whether it be performing management accounts, taking sales orders, or sweeping the warehouse. Self-management is key.

Sounds great, right?

The reality is that after thirty years, we had to have a general meeting to work out what the voting rules actually are/were, since the general meetings had often been ruled by whose memories were the loudest as to how we'd take a vote on that occasion. It was always in the manner that would suit a small, self-interested group's preferences. Cliques have formed and enemies are allies for certain events that suit both sides.

The lack of performance management is great, until you realise that people who are drastically underperforming on a continuous basis are happy to continue not performing and those with work ethics (such as yours truly) are effectively doing their work. As a member of the coop, I am part owner and therefore employer and employee. Any review feedback I give that could be conceived as critical can be ignored at will.

What I think you need to work out ahead of time is that the early adopters or first people in are going to be the ones who believe in the concept of what you're trying to achieve. The ones who come in after are more likely to try and take it in their preferred direction, which will be more self-interested.

I could give a fair amount more information, but I try to keep my work gripes about politics off the board as several cow-irkers know that I own this place.

Rapscallion

[Seshat]

An issue related to Raps'.

What are you going to do about long-term injured, chronically ill, or otherwise disabled people? They simply can't put in the same amount of effort as a fully healthy person.

They may (or may not) be worth keeping around and effectively 'paying for' because of specialised knowledge, people skills, being a good listener, and so forth.

But if you keep one around because of that - and someone else comes along wanting to join who doesn't have any desirable traits like that and can't put in the physical effort .. what do you do?

[Rapscallion]

From my perspective from where I work, I don't mind people who aren't able to work as hard, as long as they can contribute in some way. For me it's those who won't contribute.

No desirable traits when applying? I'd have to say that it's up to the individual to make themselves desirable to the community/commune, not the other way around.

I don't want to sound like a downer, but I've got a reasonable amount of experience of the issues created by situations like this (I'm working in one right now). I'd prefer to help you avoid the ones I know about.

Rapscallion