I'm Too Broken to Function

[TheSHAD0W]

You say you've sat down with a counselor, but I suspect he was not a certified psychologist, and you may need to see one.

[Seshat]

It can help to think of it as a protocol, in which each stage must be acknowledged.
Sort of like:
* HELO
* ACK

.. and so forth.

(Non-geeks: that's the first step of an email transfer.)

Or to think of the social chatter as header text.


In looking at people, and in handling the social chatter, another way to think of it is as acknowledging the humanity of your conversation partner. Give them an opportunity to be human at you, while you listen. Then reflect what they said, just a fragment of it, to let them know you actually listened.

An example:

You walk up to a co-worker, perhaps with some paper or a couple of tools in hand.

"Hi" (translation: HELO)
"Oh, hello" (translation: ACK)
"How's things?" (Got anything important to tell me?)
"Oh, you know, about the same. You?" (Not really. You?)
"Can't complain." (Not me either; other than the reason I came.)
"What can I do for you?" (Why did you come by?)
"I'm doing a bit of tweaking (etc)" (message payload)

<snip message>

"Cool, that's no problem." (Message received.)
"Hey, thanks." (Receipt acknowledged.)


There may be further footer, but it usually ends up being a new conversation:

"Oh, hey, while you're here?" (HELO)
"Yes?" (ACK)
"Did you know Jill's machine is causing problems?" (message payload)

.... etc etc etc.






Another thing is the purely social 'small talk' thing. It's hard for me - probably for you as well. I practiced on people I'd be unlikely to meet often, like cashiers at stores I don't frequent.
The header is much the same as above, I'll add the translations once it changes. Oh, and in this case, the 'me' is buying chrysanthemums. For some reason.

"Hello"
"Heya"
"How's things?"
"Pretty good. You?"
"Doing fine. These chrysanthemums are lovely."
(I acknowledge you're human and invite social interaction.)
"They are, aren't they? And they're on sale."
(Acknowledgement and invitation accepted. Hey, thanks.)
"I know. I couldn't resist buying them."
(Continued interaction to provide a boost to our 'social' attribute)
"I'm picking some up on payday. $4.25 please."
(Suits me. Mutual benefit. Oh, and here's some message payload.)
"$4.25, there you go. You'll really enjoy them."
(Message payload. And final acknowledgement of your humanity.)
"I know. See you next time!"
(Thanks! I look forward to future interactions with you.)
"Bye!"
(Final acknowledgement)



The purpose of 'small talk' is well defined in the 'The Sims' series of games. It ups relationship scores and social attribute bars: neurotypical humans have a stronger need for social contact than the typical aspie does.

The payload is actually the fact of contact. The overt topic can be anything - preferably something of at least some interest to both participants.


Does this help?

[ArcticChicken]

Seshat just said what I was going to say, but she did it much more elegantly.

You also might look into find a counselor who works on a sliding scale, and explain your situation. You might be able to find someone who can adjust their rates when you're out of a job. I just started with a sliding scale service, and the lowest they can go is $25 a session.

[Seshat]

Seshat just said what I was going to say, but she did it much more elegantly.

(bows)

Thank you!

[Magpie]

Now that you've outlined the right steps for the dance, I can practice this.

...

It's hard to keep eye contact. I keep ducking and looking away/breaking it. I'm uncomfortable, but is that sending a "I think you suck" sign? Or is it "I don't like you"

C

If that's what you need, I'm going to have to be mean here and say that it would be counter-productive to give you any more detailed step-by-step. I hated it when my social coach told me that. However, it doesn't help as much because you need to be able to get a feel for it. Remember how I told you that I can break down really quickly if it's outside of what I'm comfortable? To improve that I need to develop a feel for how socialising goes. Knowing more specific situations won't help.

Eye contact trick: look at their upper cheek, their nose, their forehead, etc. It's almost impossible for them to tell that that's what you're doing. It isn't necessary to make continuous eye contact. In fact this can be detrimental (it's a sign of aggression which makes you look, you guessed it, pushy). I can't help you with how to do it properly, I'm trying to figure that one out myself. And watching other people isn't helping - engineering is not a good place to learn social skills.

Finally, I'm not sure you can actually preclude Asperger's. Women tend to present very differently than men (i.e. the symptoms might be the same, but they show up in different ways.) If you think that there might be some benefit to getting diagnosed you might want to look into it. However, it's an expensive process, and a lot of people don't feel a need for formal diagnosis, so don't feel like you have to do it. It might help you find some closure though, if you can afford the time and money.

Feel free to PM me about this stuff if you want to though.

[Flying Grype]

I've had a thought that isn't very pretty... sometimes, assertive and no-nonsense behaviour that would be admirable in a man is considered to be distasteful coming from a woman. Meet someone's eyes, ask for something without simpering and prettying up your words, and you'll be called a bitch for it. Yes, people do lose their jobs over it. I'm trying to learn myself how to be 'softer' and 'sweeter' so that I'll get along better with people in the workplace, but that is sure as hell not me.

[BlaqueKatt]

I am afraid that I'll not be able to use my computer degree. The entry level work is desktop support/helpdesk, which is direct customer contact. <snip>
When corresponding or communicating via email or phone, I do pretty good. I have the time to think the speech through, to 'try to see consequences' of a sentence, and on the phone I know to keep mouth smiling and calm.

Hmmm my husband is in IT-works remote support/NOC/helpdesk-no customer contact except for phone/email, the people he supports are states away....they do have onsite techs that get sent out-but those are specific people-if you lived here they're hiring....

[tollbaby]

I used to have exactly that type of problem in the workplace (and sometimes I still do, but I recognize it when I offend someone and promptly apologize). What helped me a lot was to create mentors for myself. I see someone successful at what I'm trying to accomplish, either at work or in my personal life, and I try to model my behavior on what I observe that person doing. I write little notes for myself like, "Don't interrupt people" "Smile when you're on the phone" and put them up around my workstation. Yeah, anyone looking closely at my notes will think I'm an oddball, but so what? They help me remember to moderate my behavior appropriately in a professional situation - to the point where a few recent coworkers with whom I ended up discussing asperger's because their children had been diagnosed said they never would have known if I hadn't told them.

To compensate for my lack of social graces, I take copious mental notes on how others who seem well-liked behave in social situations and try to mimic their behaviours and responses. My one cardinal rule is to always approach situation with a positive attitude, as I truly believe that negativity only begets negativity, and I don't want to be surrounded by negativity. (I don't care how much bunk people think The Secret is, it has really change my outlook on my own behaviour).

[Seshat]

To compensate for my lack of social graces, I take copious mental notes on how others who seem well-liked behave in social situations and try to mimic their behaviours and responses. My one cardinal rule is to always approach situation with a positive attitude, as I truly believe that negativity only begets negativity, and I don't want to be surrounded by negativity. (I don't care how much bunk people think The Secret is, it has really change my outlook on my own behaviour).

My main model was my grandmother.

I agree that negativity begets negativity, and positivity likewise. But I have a very specific reason for it.

* I'm nice to the cashier.
* Her mood improves.
* She's more likely to be nice to the next person she meets. (Maybe more than one.)
* That person's mood improves.
* They're more likely to be nice...
* eventually it comes back around to me.
Of course, by that time, I've been nice to twenty different people, so I've scattered 'niceness' in my wake all the way around the shopping mall.

Or obversely:
* I'm nasty to the cashier.
* Her mood gets grumpier.
* She's more likely to be surly or nasty to the next person/people she meets.
* etc etc.
And thus, I scatter 'nastiness' in my wake.

Given the choice, I choose to scatter niceness.

[Rapscallion]

How are you doing now, Cutenoob?

Rapscallion

[Der Cute]

Well, overall, okish.

I'm transtioning medications to get me "higher" on the depression scale, because I've got PostPartumMood Disorder...(used to be called PPD, but now you get a range of mood disorders..anxiety, ocd, totally psychotic...yargh)

So this new drug is kind of rocky, tbh : standard titration is very slow. VERY.

And, I'm still feeling like a failure.

I got feedback from the HR person (when did THIS start happening) that I need to work on my listening skills, that I interrupt and "think I know everything already". This goes along with the "you need humility" and "you need empathy" lines I've heard before.

Sad part is I'm having a hell of a time trying to find a doc to work on all this shit. Because the first priority was/is to get me stabilized with the PPMD stuff. NOW with anxiety exacerbated, depression on crack, and my control freak getting it's freak on, I'm even more f-d up than I used to be. I'm trying currently to get a neuro psych evaluation to get a full list of issues (heh) and then start really working on it.

I feel like I'm playing whack-a-mood in my head.

Strangely enough, I've got my satire/humor working. Sometimes that and my kitty are the only things that keep me going.

Cutenoob

[Der Cute]

Update:

Isn't life interesting? When someone hands you lemons....I hate lemons.

I've been offered a job and hired. I am starting work, and am scared shitless that I might lose it due to the behavior that I've got ingrained in me.

I fought for a psych diagnosis and psych check from my PCP doc. I said, "dude, if I've got coverage, I better use it - so hook me up with someone who can figure out wtf is going on in my head" And it was an interesting quiz/session with the doc.

I've been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I was speechless when I realized that is what the Dr. was hinting at, and what it means....it's me all day. And scarily, it's not easy to fix. It takes a style of counseling called DBT. It's like CBT on 'roids and much more strict. (actually, I need that, but hey, I'm a masochist)

I'm hoping that this job (after training) will work for me. The training is supposed to last 5 or 6 weeks, and today was very overwhelming. My brain feels like mush. Runny mush. But I'm keeping my eyes on the goal of Graveyard Shift, where I'll be alone, ALONE, ALOONNNNNE and working via email and phone. Those 2 kinds of contact are much easier for me.

Dr. also pointed me towards some treatment places, and I'm getting the runaround there with them. Did you know that I asked specifically "Does this place do DBT" and that the people said Yes, We Do...come to find out that DBT wasn't done in this city's center, and it "might" be somewhere else.
WTF. I called to get this lined up yalls...

Drugs have changed a LOT - I'm feeling SO much better than I was in June. I'm much more confident as a mom (that's scary too), getting the anxiety shushed, balanced in mood and overall dealing. I'm much better, but not anywhere near perfect.

I hope that I can get working on these issues soon. I need the money to survive, but if I fuck this job up, I'm not going to feel so good...it's an endless loop of needing help, getting a job, losing the job because I need the help....

Guys, I need good thoughts and hugs to keep me going. I'm scared - I know I'll live, but get through this training? That's critical.

Cutenoob

[Mytical]

*hugs and good thoughts* You WILL make it through, and you WILL realize you are awesome. Everybody is unique, unique means special. Just remember that. ((Though not 'spechal' like most SC's think hehe, but I am rambling again)).

[Magpie]

I hope that you find somewhere that will do the DBT, and that it sticks in.

Best of luck with the new job.

[Kaylyn]

I've been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I was speechless when I realized that is what the Dr. was hinting at, and what it means....it's me all day. And scarily, it's not easy to fix. It takes a style of counseling called DBT. It's like CBT on 'roids and much more strict. (actually, I need that, but hey, I'm a masochist)

I've been doing some research for my novel about suicide, depression, and mood disorders. I stumbled across BPD in several books and just glanced over it. Then I read about it in more detail and realized HOO BOY THAT'S ME.

I don't think my case is as severe as, say, Susanna Kaysen (Girl, Interrupted), but I fit the criteria. I don't necessarily have a problem reading social cues from people, but I do tend to come across as abrupt and rude to people. I also do the whole jumping in on people's sentences and have tried to train myself to let them finish, even if I know what they're going to say or suggest.

My biggest problem is mood swings and blowing things WAY out of proportion. I get what I call the "spiral." One tiny little thing might set it off, for example, a short paycheck that causes something to go overdue because I can't get bills paid on time. Then I'll start thinking about my mother-in-law and how she's too lazy to work, and how she doesn't even get off her butt and pick up her dogs' poop around the house before I step in it, and how she can't be arsed to get off the computer for ten minutes and do SOMETHING around the house, and how her chatrooms are more important than sitting down and actually HOMESCHOOLING her younger son like she should be doing (he's horribly behind and is 16 and functioning at MAYBE a third-grade level)...next thing you know I'm on the phone yelling at my husband for caring more about his Team Fortress 2 or League of Legends games than me. And he has no clue where it all came from. Luckily he understands how I work, and lets me get it out of my system, because he knows in a couple of hours I'll be calling him back apologizing.

I've gotten a LOT better at controlling myself. I've started taking a few extra seconds to think about how what I'm about to say is going to be perceived, and if I'm saying it because I feel it's necessary and will actually improve a situation, or if I just want to rage for the sake of raging. It's really helped with my relationships with my friends that don't understand me quite as well as my husband does.

If you need advice or just to talk, feel free to PM me. I'm here with insight or commiseration (hey, spellcheck says that's actually a word!) if you need it.