What to do in this situation?

[lachesis]

I'm going to try to make a very long story into a somewhat less long story and hope I'm keeping identifying info to a minimum without confusing anyone.

**Note: Please don't send this to Fratching. If someone feels that this is better suited to that site because of the touchy subjects of which I am unbiased against, please report this post to the Mods. Thanks.**

To start off, I am friends with both a Mother and Daughter. I became friends with Mother first. She and I work for the same company. I met Daughter about a year later after she came home from a military tour in the Middle East. Daughter and I became really good friends as well.

Now, Mother and Daughter are both strong willed personalities. I connected with each of them about different things. Daughter used to be a wild child, but joined the military at 17 to, as she says it, "save her life." Part of her identity is that she is Military and wanted to be a role model for young women that had a similar wild streak or bad background that want to join the armed forces. Every weekend she would take part in a "boot camp" that her former superior ran for young people. She was often the only female volunteer for this.

Anyway. Daughter used to date this guy, we'll call him DB (for Daughter's Boyfriend though I'd like it to stand for something else...). She dated him before she left for deployment, but it didn't work out because he hated the fact that she had male friends in her unit. They dated off and on but then they broke it off completely.

When she came back, they somehow found their way back to each other and... broke up/made up twice before making it exclusive. This is when things got irritating for me and the rest of her friends.

Daughter would be out with whomever. Didn't matter who. Sometimes she was with me, sometimes she was with a group of her military buddies who were in her unit while she was deployed, sometimes it would be as simple as having dinner with Mother. It would never fail - DB would call and get mad at her because he thought she was lying when she said where she was. He also always insisted that her male military friends were going to rape her if she went out alone without him. Yet, he NEVER wanted to go when the unit went out.

There were a couple of times I was helping out with a fundraiser at the community military place where Daughter is a member and Mother is a board member of the Ladies' Auxiliary. I knew soon enough DB would be calling or texting... I was right. A couple of hours into the fundraiser, he was texting her asking her when she'd be back home. He wanted her to tell the "dirty old men" (aka the older members) that she was taken and they better not take advantage of her.

Both Mother and I had to call DB on the phone to tell her that YES she was actually where she said she was and that she was with who she said she was with. Daughter is a big girl, I think she could have handled her own in any situation. DB (a "construction worker" which is his legal cover for being a drug dealer - yes, this is KNOWN because Daughter told me herself) also had said a few times that he could redesign Mother's house to make an in-law apartment so MOTHER could live there while Daughter and DB lived in the main house. Uh... say what? Remind me again who has their name on the deed? Certainly not DB!

Over the months of Daughter and DB dating, DB went out and purchased a puppy from someone in the neighborhood. This breed of puppy is generally considered to have a Bad Reputation. He did not ask Daughter permission to bring this dog home, nor did he ask her Mother to bring it into her home. In fact, Daughter explicitly said NO because they have several rescue cats and two Small Breed dogs already.

This breed also happened to be the same as two dogs that attacked Mother a few years ago while she was on her own property. At the time, Mother had two Small Breed dogs of about the same age. She let them into the yard to pee and one of the Bad Rep dogs jumped over the four foot (LOCKED) stockade fence and went after the Small Dogs before turning on Mother herself. She got away with lots of puncture wounds. Mother's male Small Dog was killed attempting to save Mother's life.

There is currently a civil suit against the owner(s) of those dogs. Mother is now petrified of all Large Dogs and especially of that particular breed.

So of course it would make perfect sense that DB pick just the breed to make things all so much worse. Lots of fighting ensued between Mother and Daughter over the dog. Finally Mother said to get the puppy OUT of the house and she never wanted to see it again. DB never took care of it anyway and he was the one who wanted it. The puppy ended up going to DB's mother's house to stay.

Unbeknownst to them, a private investigator was keeping close watch on the house on behalf of the guy who owned the Bad Rep dogs. Mother's deposition came up and they treated her like a criminal saying that she should drop the case because she in fact OWNED a dog of the same breed she was claiming to be afraid of. The whole case clinched on the trauma she was caused by the attack.

Meanwhile... about a week ago Mother and Daughter had a huge blowout fight (some about the puppy, some about DB, some about her reckless abandonment of everything that means something to her in her life) and the two of them were not on speaking terms. I met up with Mother a couple of nights ago and her cell phone rang later on in the evening. It was Daughter. She and DB had just gotten engaged.

Mother said "Great. When are you moving out?" Daughter is pissed that Mother isn't happy. I haven't said a damn word either way. I have NOT congratulated her nor have I been able to bring myself to say anything nice about DB.

Needless to say, DB is not (and has not been) on everyone's popular list. Mother can't stand him, I want to punch his lights out whenever I see him, and the rest of Daughter's friends think he's a controlling jerk. He managed to completely cut Daughter off from everyone else in her life but him.

She has the biggest blinders on that I have seen in my life and I am truly worried that he will have her stuck in the house with no way of getting out of the relationship if anything were to happen. She has abandoned all visions of volunteering at the boot camp and apart from being required to fulfill her monthly obligation with the military, she does NOTHING but stay in bed all day watching TV with HIM.

He NEVER leaves her alone! I have tried to get her to go with me to the movies or whatever but she always says no because DB doesn't want her to.

I don't want to lose my friendship with Daughter, but she is being dragged down by this guy. I just CAN'T be supportive of this relationship. Mother is beside herself and feels like she failed as a mother. How do we deal with this?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

You're going to lose the friendship with the daughter. Get used to that idea now. He's at least emotionally abusive (the dog debacle) and controlling. He's going to cut her off from everyone in her life, including you and her mother. Probably ESPECIALLY you and her mother.

Speaking out against this guy will simply accelerate that process when she gets mad at you for telling her what she does not want to hear.

Having said that, there's nothing for you to do except be supportive of Mother. She's going to need a friend. This is not your problem to fix.

[lachesis]

Thanks, Kink. I was afraid you would say that.

The only thing I ever said to Daughter about DB was that I was worried she was losing herself in him. I stopped saying any bad thing about him in front of her. All of us involved has said that if we keep disparaging him, then we'd push her further into his arms. Regardless of what we say, she sees something in him that we don't. Maybe it's the sweet nothings about when she gets her trust fund...

[BroSCFischer]

Unfortunately, in a situation like this, there is no way to convince your friend of anything as far as DB is concerned. There is a saying, "love is blind" and that is certainly the case in situations like these.

She is going to have to realize for herself exactly who he really is, and until she does, you, nor her mother, nor her Army buddies will be able to convince her otherwise. Sad to say, if God Himself were to descend and tell her, she wouldn't believe it.

This is probably going to cost you the friendship, as RK said. Be prepared for it.

SC

[Seshat]

Introduce Mother to Daughter's army buddies, if she doesn't already know them. Military buddies often rally around family, and Mother will need all the support she can get.

Discuss quietly with one of the most sensible/wise of the army buddies whether to get the unit's psychologist involved, and if so, how. On the one hand, professional help to see the ass for what he is may just save her sooner. On the other, having it on her record may become a problem later.

Also, there will be support in the community for friends and family of women in abusive situations. Contact them. If nothing else, the local battered-women's shelter will know where that support is.

She needs professional help; though she may be unwilling (yet) to get it. Mother could definitely use professional support. And advice from experienced professionals may be just what you/Mother/Army Buddies need, to - if it's possible - help her see it as soon as possible.

Unfortunately, as the others have said, this story usually goes badly.

[csquared]

Print this out and show it to your friend.

Dear Abby - 15 signs of an abuser
http://www.uexpress.com/dearabby/?uc_full_date=20110325

[lachesis]

Thanks again everyone. I have been supporting Mother as much as I can. Mother and Daughter had another huge blowout fight last night. I didn't ask Mother to go into details, but it again sounded like much of the same argument. This will be a looooong battle.

I am heeding all the advice posted here and preparing myself for the worst. I am not looking forward to losing my friendship with Daughter. I already feel my heart starting to break for her, but I know she will come back eventually.

csquared, the Dear Abby link scared me in how true some of those signs were. I don't want to frighten or worry Mother, but I think it would be a good thing to point out some of them. Thank you.

Mother has attempted to reach out to a couple of Daughter's Military buddies. I suggested counseling for Mother for a start. The company we work for offers up to six free counseling sessions and if anything going by herself may help to get her feelings out. She feels helpless and hurt right now. There's only so much I personally can do for her. She said she'd think about it. I hope she does.

[Jester]

DB is a raging douchebag asshole controlling fuckwad. And those are the nice things I have to say about him.

Clearly his emotional control of her is going about the way he wants it to. He has cut her off from everyone in her life but him, so she now only sees the world through the lenses he has put over her eyes, through his perception filters. This is classic emotional control at work. Nothing new here. Sadly, very effective.

What can you do? I dunno. Daughter needs to see this shitball for what he is, but sadly, she is in the middle of a cycle that is hard to break. Trust me, on this subject I speak with some knowledge, as many here will remember.

As for Mother...why, precisely, is she allowing Daughter and DB to live in Mother's house? Unless DB is not staying there and I misinterpreted it. But it sounds like he and Daughter are staying there, and considering how DB has treated Mother (the mother in law apartment in HER OWN HOME was especially audacious), I can't understand why she would. Regardless, since Daughter has made it clear that she chooses DB and his decrees over everything else, why would Mother let Daughter stay in Mother's house? Seriously, if Mother wants to have any chance of getting through to Daughter how far this bullshit has come, she should put her foot down and tell Daughter it's time for Daughter to find her own place.

I can guarantee you that if I were staying in my parents' place and doing or saying half the shit that Daughter is, I would find myself with a quick eviction from the property. My stepfather, even at 80, doesn't tolerate any bullshit, and even my mild-mannered mother wouldn't stand for that crap.

This whole thing is a train wreck. I just hope Daughter wakes up and smells the toxic smoke before the locomotive finally explodes in a massive fireball.


As for you, there are many things that you can do, but I can't think of very many that are legal or condoned by this website. Beyond those, just be there for Mother. She's going to need her friends right now. And eventually, hopefully will Daughter.

[yeahwhatev]

You cannot clear someone's vision for them. "It's not that bad" "They didn't mean it." "I can change them" are all self delusional utterances people in abusive situations utter.

Review what the Daughter means to you. Are they worth the stress? So they listen to your advice, agree, and then take more abuse? You will watch that repeat until THEY decide to break that cycle. If it's worth the heartache and heartache, be a good friend. Listen, keep trying, and be there. If their friendship is not worth that nonsense.. leave.

[lachesis]

DB is a raging douchebag asshole controlling fuckwad. And those are the nice things i Have to say about him.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!!

To answer the question about the living situation, Daughter lives with Mother. Mother moved here for Daughter's benefit because of the proximity to the Armory of which Daughter is based.

DB officially lives in his mother's basement (surprised?), but has been staying their house long enough that Mother should be requiring rent out of him. Daughter pays for half the mortgage and the cable bill. Daughter is not on the deed.

Mother puts up with the shenanigans partly because to fight it would be mentally draining on her and she's already physically exhausted from working many hours at two jobs.

The other part of it is that financially she will not be able to afford the entire mortgage by herself after a while. However, Mother has said she'd sell the house before letting DB do ANY type of unauthorized construction on the place.

As stated in my original post, Mother has kicked Daughter out and she is now staying with DB at his mother's house. They are currently looking for an apartment. They will most likely fail to find a suitable pet-friendly place with several cats (at least four) and two dogs, one of which is the much disputed over puppy.

Review what the Daughter means to you. Are they worth the stress? So they listen to your advice, agree, and then take more abuse? You will watch that repeat until THEY decide to break that cycle. If it's worth the heartache and heartache, be a good friend. Listen, keep trying, and be there. If their friendship is not worth that nonsense.. leave.

I will remain friends with Mother, but it'll never be a clean break of friendship with Daughter because of my association with Mother. They have both been best friends to me.

Mother and Daughter, while they have spectacular fights, are very very close and I know eventually Daughter will come back to her. It's just very hard to watch the downhill spiral.

She does not contact me anymore. I have tried to connect, but she blows me off time after time because DB doesn't want her to spend time with anyone but him. I have stopped trying to contact her and keep up with her through a mutual friend.

[Seraph]

God help me, my heart broke when I read this. I literally cried... that poor family, that poor girl....

Blows my mind that she is so oblivious to whats going on, but then again, I've never been in a situation like that so I can't even fathom it, really.

Big hugs for you too, you're such an awesome friend to be trying to help like this.

[Solumina]

Unfortunately there really isn't anything that you can do for her, she has to see things for what they are on her own, all that you can do is be there with open arms if/when she realizes that this guy is toxic.

[Seshat]

Daughter's Military buddies. I suggested counseling for Mother for a start. The company we work for offers up to six free counseling sessions and if anything going by herself may help to get her feelings out. She feels helpless and hurt right now. There's only so much I personally can do for her. She said she'd think about it. I hope she does.

Both of those are good for her. Being in touch with the military buddies - so long as they're good people, and I presume so - can only be helpful to her. And any counsellor who's not a douchebag will be helpful.

One important note with counselling: the best predictor of how well a counselling session will go is the rapport the client builds with the counsellor. Basically, how well their personalities mesh. Mother shouldn't settle for a random counsellor (though only six free sessions is .. bleargh.)

When (please may it be 'when' not 'if') Daughter sees the jerk for what he is and gets herself free, she will also need the services of a counsellor. He's training her to think and perceive things the way he wants her to, she'll need help to un-train.
If Mother builds a rapport with her counsellor, her counsellor can probably suggest someone for Daughter to see. (He/she shouldn't see her him/herself: he's too familiar with Mother's POV of the situation.)

[lachesis]

Small update:

I was mistaken in thinking Daughter was staying at DB's mother's house. SHE is still living with Mother. DB supposedly was staying at his mother's house, but since their houses are right around the corner from each other, he waits until Mother's lights are out in the main part of the house and then creeps in the front door when he thinks Mother is sleeping. He knows when Mother is supposed to be up for her day job, so he sneaks back out before she gets up.

He MUST have a copy of the house key. I suggested that since Daughter announced when she was moving out (either April or May), that on the next day the move is done to change the locks. Who knows who else has a copy of that key? I offered to buy the new locks for her as an early Mother's Day gift.

I have also found out that when the civil case was filed, Mother's tires were slashed. Daughter also had her tires slashed at one point before she was seeing DB again. There is no way to prove who did it, so she did not bring it up in the case, though her lawyer does know about it.

Speaking of the court case, Daughter is now considered a Hostile Witness due to the fact that she was a witness to the actual attack, though Mother and Daughter are not on speaking terms. Daughter wants Mother to settle out of court so Mother can give Daughter the money because it's "owed to her" and she and DB can live "happily ever after" in the neighborhood.

Mother has threatened to subpoena DB's entire family against Daughter's wishes.

As far as Daughter's family is concerned, Mother's side of the family all hate DB because he is who he is and they have seen the signs as well. Father's side of the family (Mother and Father have been divorced for years) has taken a "meh" approach as DB is one of the FOUR engagements Daughter has had in as many years. In a nutshell, she is determined to get married and is settling for the last-prize pig in the contest.

Naturally, Daughter had a little tantrum about no one being happy for her and saying as such. All of the adults in her life (including her Brother) had the very same reaction to the whole thing. All I can think of is: "GEE, you think there could be a tiny smidge of a problem if every single person in your life thinks this isn't such a great idea??"

On a more positive note, Daughter is off spending two weeks doing her mandatory yearly obligation for the Military. We can only hope that some time with her Unit will help to get rid of some of the brainwashing DB has done to her.

I can't say thank you enough to you all for your support. It's meant a lot to me that my fears and worries are being validated enough so that I feel like I'm not overreacting. I will keep updating as events come about.

[42_42_42]

That girl has serious issues and really really really needs to be seeing a therapist.