Is this normal?

[Mishi]

First up, I'm both biased and incredibly lucky. But no, this is not normal.
You need a spare bank account, it'll make both life and taxes easier. A spreadsheet (or two) of expenses and income would also be a good idea, its just a pain to organise.

I can't wrap my head around it that your husband won't help you to do something that you enjoy. It makes you happier, which makes the household happier and should therefore make your home a nicer place to be. You need some time out doing something constructive because it is frustrating to only be doing household chores all day, along with parenting and school stuff. The chores are done, and then two minutes later, you have to do some more. The kids run amuck and don't listen or they're tired/sick/cranky and you feel like you can't do anything right. At least the quilting stays done, is fairly quiet, doesn't really argue and looks great.

Something needs to change and it needs to change soon. Talk to him calmly and try to have a list of problems with potential solutions on hand. Breathe deeply and remember that you deserve to be treated as an equal.

[Kristev]

To be quite blunt, no. I feel this is abnormal and must be discontinued.

[Kanalah]

Well the main problem is that he doesn't see my sewing as a *job*. Hobby yes, but apparently it's not a job until I make around the same amount he does. And that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

So I should be doing housework/chores all day and sewing in the evening. Kinda hard to do in a pitch black room, but whatever. It's kicked him in the butt too, because the computers are in the sewing room and he can't see to play his game after 7pm. I very gently brought the subject of light bulbs up again, and he's decided to pay the handyman after the 15th. I just wish he'd said that 3 weeks ago instead of stomping around throwing a tantrum like a child.

I absolutly do not want a divorce, because I will end up living in a cardboard box. I have no supports out here and my family would not take me in.

The funny thing is, I washed and put away his laundry yesterday ad he was all lovey-dovey. So again, I'm just supposed to do housework - not sewing. How quickly he forgets that my quilt money buys his train stuff. Not anymore.

We've actually gotten into screaming matches over this before. When we first met - I was not allowed to speak in public or look at other people in the face. It took him about a year of working with me to get to where I can mostly handle myself on my own. And then I've yelled at him about that if he just wanted a housekeeper why in the flying hells did you work to make me more independent?

Thanks guys for your support, I know it's gonna be an uphill battle. It's nice to have people not think I'm crazy. If I try to talk to my family they either say "Well at least he doesn't beat you" or "Well you probably deserve it."

[Seraph]

If I try to talk to my family they either say "Well at least he doesn't beat you" or "Well you probably deserve it."

Your family, in plain English, is a bunch of rotten-cored, low lying, tripe-sucking, scumbuckets.

/fume

You do NOT deserve this treatment. At all.

[Treasure]

When we first met - I was not allowed to speak in public or look at other people in the face.

something about this line struck a very discordant note for me... NOT ALLOWED??????

I can understand if it were your anxiety that prevented you and you were UNABLE to... but for him to believe he has the right to give or deny you permission to do so.....

I refer back to my earlier post - you are his EQUAL... not his property, not his child... not his servant....

Your family is worthless obviously, so don't go crawling back to them.... "at least he doesn't beat you" is BS - I was in a relationship where it wasn't abusive (in any way) we just both happened to get laid off the same day, and I found work first... and then I found myself making almost classic "abused woman lifetime movie of the week" type excuses... "Its not his fault..." "Maybe after he gets a job, it'll be better...." etc etc etc..... and one day I caught myself saying this, and went "Really?! No!" and shortly after that ended the relationship...


you said that he worked with you to overcome some of your anxiety issues, well honey, its time to use that confidence training on him..... You are strong... you are stronger than this.... and really, do you want your children to grow up unable to respect you, b/c they see you being a doormat?

[MaggieTheCat]

I know you've said you love to quilt and sew, but is it possible for you to "take a break" from all of that for a month or so? This is for two purposes. 1) It will give you a chance to try to "relax" -- I know you said you don't know how to do this, but at least try out some different things besides the same old, same old routine every single day. 2) It will show your husband how much your sewing contributes to the household. You said it pays for his trains, I'm assuming a hobby of his. Does it pay for anything else? Even if it helps pay for something essential, like groceries, it will hopefully help open his eyes that you ARE contributing to the household income, even if it's not as much (monetarily) as he is. When he says, "I need $100 for groceries/trains" you can tell him, "You told me to just do housework and take care of the kids and not sew, so I don't have that money. You will have to be responsible for all the bills now that I'm not working."

[Kanalah]

something about this line struck a very discordant note for me... NOT ALLOWED??????

I can understand if it were your anxiety that prevented you and you were UNABLE to... but for him to believe he has the right to give or deny you permission to do so.....

Those were my family's rules, not his. My father believes that women are property and I was raised like that. Mom believes that she is perfect and has never done anything wrong. She used to scream at me that I ruined her life and that everything would be better if I would just kill myself.

Yeah fun times.

[Pedersen]

kanalah: I've read this, I've spoken to you in chat, I've heard at least some of what you have to deal with from the people in your life.

I'm only going to say this: The people in your life make me very angry. If I treated another human being the way you are treated, I would be disgusted with myself, and that's if I was going very easy on myself.

The words I have to describe those people are more than slightly unkind, and would not be helpful.

No, kanalah, this is not normal, not for me. It's not even close to normal. The only way it would be acceptable for me to treat my own wife like this would be if I were temporarily disabled (broken legs, just out of surgery, etc). And even then, that's limited to two things: asking her to do more, and a temporary situation. My attitude about it would be a whole lot more grateful that she's there to help take care of me.

I'm not great around the house, to put it mildly. I'm quite messy. But I try to keep the areas clean that matter to her, at least. And I do yard work (I don't pay someone, though we might be able to afford it, I actually do it). I do actual fix up work (stupid bathroom needing lots of drywall work driving me crazy). In other words, I help. I don't think I do as much as she does, and she says she doesn't feel like she does as much as I do. So, we're probably more even than either of us will admit.

For your husband and family to treat you this way is wrong, at least in my book. You deserve better.

[Kara]

I've shared my thoughts with you in chat, but yes, there are marriages where things like that are normal. MY marriage was like that, I was expected to do everything, even when I worked 2 full-time jobs.

I have to wonder if your brain works like mine does. I wasn't raised like you were, but I have this instinct that makes me believe that if I stop taking care of everyone else and try to do something for myself, if I do something for me rather than doing something for others, it makes me selfish. I never questioned my ex when she demanded I do this and this and this and tore me down if it didn't get done or done right, because in my mind that was my "place." My ex accused me of being selfish, and though I did sometimes express what *I* wanted, I didn't argue much when she said no. I thought she was right, I was being selfish to even think about it. I'd come home from work and then fix dinner and be up til 2am doing dishes and whatnot while letting the kids wind down (they'd usually be put down for a nap at 4pm and still be asleep when I got home at 10:30). Then I'd get the kids to bed and have to be up again at 6 (4 hours of sleep for me). Get up, get the kids up and bathed and ready for school, then take them to school. Ex would get home from work and we'd do our grocery shopping or run errands in the mornings, then she'd lay down and I'd do whatever miscellaneous chores while tending to my youngest. Then I'd fix lunch, go to work, and the process would repeat itself. Every day. It was impossible to live like this, and, yes, I'd sometimes fall asleep before things got done, or I'd fall asleep before the kids did at night and they'd get into things. Those were my fault too. I wasn't doing what my ex told me to, therefore I didn't respect her and was lazy. And when the kids got into things, I was being a neglectful parent by sleeping when I wasn't supposed to (not like I could control it, sometimes my exhausted body just CRASHED), or by not waking up when the kids (who'd just had a 6 hour nap) got up in the middle of the night and got into things.

When I told my counselor about this, she said that many women have the same personality type as mine in regards to their families. We put everyone else ahead of what we want and need because we feel that it is what we MUST do. That not doing so makes us selfish. And we are the type of women who are almost guaranteed to be abused, whether emotionally, physically, or both. Because we will take it. We will take every bit of that abuse and believe in our hearts that we were in the wrong and we deserve it for failing our spouses or families.

I didn't deserve the treatment I had to endure. And you don't either. You don't have to get a bunch of money and leave the family behind and go to Vegas for a week.... but you need time to just be YOU and do what YOU want to do. It's not selfish, we have to take care of ourselves to be able to most effectively take care of our loved ones, otherwise we're just going to wear down until nothing is left. Not only do you need "me" time, you need to do something else I never did with my ex. You need to put your foot down and say "No. I'm not doing this on my own, you are going to help me." Will it cause a fight? Probably. But how often do you just give in to avoid a fight and you wind up fighting anyway?

[Solumina]

we closed my bank account years ago.

This is a big red flag for me. Why was your bank account closed? Also do you two have a joint account and he would just be upset with you spending the money that way or do you not have access to funds at all?

[Kanalah]

Kara,

Yeah a lot of it is like that. My parents were really selfish and as a kid I had to go without things a lot. Mom bought Nike's for herself, I got thrift store shoes. Dad bought steak, I didn't get dinner. I was constantly told that I was bad and didn't deserve anything. I kept being good and hoped this would improve. Surprise, they never did.

After 19 years of that, I honestly don't feel like I deserve nice things. Sure maybe a small treat here and there, but never anything big.

I do actually have a "Quilt til you wilt" day next month at one of my fabric stores. From 8am - 10pm you hang out at the store and sew. Really looking forward to that. I'd like to be able to have something once a momth maybe where I can just take off for the day. Maybe even drive up to Kansas?

Solumnia, we have joint accounts and we closed mine because for some reason we could put money into it, but not take any out. After trying to use it as a "savings" of sorts, the bank started charging us, so we closed it. We have a joint account in hubby's name and I have a paypal account that I use for business that is linked to the joint account.

Again I want to send virtual hugs to everyone. I'm planning on having a very serious sit down talk with hubby tonight, and I'm glad that I have some support.

[Kara]

After 19 years of that, I honestly don't feel like I deserve nice things. Sure maybe a small treat here and there, but never anything big.

You do deserve nice things

Maybe even drive up to Kansas?

Or maybe I could head down to Oklahoma sometime?

Again I want to send virtual hugs to everyone. I'm planning on having a very serious sit down talk with hubby tonight, and I'm glad that I have some support.

You have my number. Use it whenever needed. I hope the talk with hubs goes well. Prayers and big *hugs* for you.

[ArcticChicken]

After 19 years of that, I honestly don't feel like I deserve nice things. Sure maybe a small treat here and there, but never anything big.

Of all the horrible things about abuse, the thing I find the most tragic is how it sets people up to be abused again and again. I don't know a single person who would put up with the things you've put up with, Kanalah.

You are a good, wonderful, beautiful person, and you deserve all the nice things.

[Der Cute]

Honestly I'm not sure why I'm even writing all this up. I think it's just myself being whiny again.

Some background first: Hubby takes anti-seizure meds that affect his short-term memory. I come from an abusive family and hubs knows this. My family hates both of us and the kids. Hubby knows I have depression and anxiety issues. Hubs comes from a family that is very well off and he's used to that type of lifestyle. I think I've mentioned before that MIL's house looks like the cover of a magazine and she cleans the entire house daily.

Ok. In my personal experience, anti-seizure drugs DO affect short term memory. That is possible, but if you know this, you make efforts to help yourself remember things.
You having depression and anxiety can also effect YOUR short term memory. I'm not saying you do. I'm saying this is possible. So DOCUMENT THE SITUATIONS!! You will cover your ass, you will have evidence of his comments, and you will be able to reassure yourself. Plus, writing the shit down will help you dissect and understand your own thoughts. When I'm squirrel-brained, I need to do this.

So 6 months after our (downtown JOP) wedding, my husband lost his job. We put everything we could in storage and donated the appliances to my family and the rest to Goodwill. Hubby and I lived out of the car for 2 years.

OW.

When we finally were able to get an apartment, both of us were working. We split housework equally. When I was let go, everything was still equally divided. Then our daughter was born. That was when things changed. Then he decided that my half was the baby and the inside of the house. Outside of the house was his. Of course his idea of outside chores was paying someone to do it, which we really couldn't afford.

These choices may have to do with his upbringing. STILL it does not excuse it. These are the times you discuss or yell (try not to) say "No. This is NOT right." Are these hills to die on? You decide. You are responsible for your well-being, since he's not pitching in to help with this.

Now we have two kids, and I am doing all the housework. Since we can't afford for someone to do lawnwork, now that's apparently my job as well. He works from 7am-4pm and then plays on the computer. I work from 6am-10pm because now I'm doing all the housework, taking care of both kids and running my home business.

If I do ask for help he either pretends he didn't hear me ask for help, or makes a snide comment like "You don't come to my office and help me out." I feel so worn down that it's not even funny. He's said that my depression is just me being lazy, or that I'm being unfair towards him. I always make sure that he and the kids are taken care of - most weekdays I don't even have time for lunch.

I don't talk to him about it anymore because he always turns it into a fight and I'm really tired of fighting. He doesn't believe in divorce, and has said if I really want to leave, he'll pay me $1,000 a month to have my own place. Also one of the "rules" of the house is because of his seizures he has to get enough sleep so if we have a fight -and even if it's his fault - I'm still the one sleeping on the couch.
I guess I finally decided to just ask...is it normal for one person to do so much? I honestly feel like a big whiny baby about it.

.
First, where does he get off saying "someone else does the lawn work"? His upbringing? Illogical, because your lifestyle currently does not reflect his history. So he's just passing the buck here. Again, having epilepsy means you DO have to get sleep. I can function just fine on 4 or 6 hours of sleep. That's still too little even for non seizure people. But it does not mean 12 hours of sleep. Remember that. He's using seizures to excuse his behavior. No. Bullshit.
He doesn't believe in divorce? So what? Who says you have to? And he wants to pay you to live somewhere else? Nuh-uh. These are red flags for me, and they are very important aspects you want to consider for yourself. Are they hills to die on? Talk to yourself in your journal

]When we first met - I was not allowed to speak in public or look at other people in the face. It took him about a year of working with me to get to where I can mostly handle myself on my own. And then I've yelled at him about that if he just wanted a housekeeper why in the flying hells did you work to make me more independent?

Those were my family's rules, not his. My father believes that women are property and I was raised like that. Mom believes that she is perfect and has never done anything wrong. She used to scream at me that I ruined her life and that everything would be better if I would just kill myself.

You were exposed to some serious SERIOUS emotional abuse at home, and this has resulted in your acceptance of another emotional abusive relationship. I had something similar - my dad is/was emotionally abusive. But the men I wanted to live with were somewhat like Dad, because that's all I knew in my life. I've since changed that, trust me.

Ok. For what I see:
He is not taking responsibility for the upkeep of the house (physically) Is he pitching $ in? (I think he is, but does not excuse him).
He is having you do a lot of the physical work, child care, house upkeep, landscaping.
Your job is somewhat physical, which means you are spending energy doing THAT and the other tasks you have.
He has convinced you to not have a savings or bank account on your own. Both of you decided and chose to have a joint account. Why didn't you make your own again? Slipped your mind? Ok, well, here's your chance, we're reminding you.
He had 'not allowed you' to speak in public. Is this because he was being uber controlling? Was it because he didn't like your speech/vocabulary? (still doesnt excuse it, I'm curious tbh)Whatever it is, it's NOT ACCEPTABLE. You're here now, asking for help. That ^ is just not cool, NOT ACCEPTABLE, this IS a hill to die on.
You've also stated you don't want to leave due to no backup. I myself have been in a similar situation. It was move out on my own or stay there with him for financial reasons (kept this to myself). I stayed there just long enough for HIM to leave and me find a new place to live. It was survival but grit my teeth to stay somewhat sane.
OK. So you're scared shitless about moving out, you don't know if you could keep your head above water. That is a situation that can be remedied.

Alright. I'm hearing you're at a breaking point, you are at a place where you're stopping yourself and saying, "Self...wait.. this sucks. Can we take more of this? Is THIS ok? I'm really really unhappy...shit." You are self-aware of a situation that is NOT good. (good for being self-aware, ok?)

First: I want you to call the Abuse Hotline on this number: 1−800−799−SAFE (7233) or TTY 1−800−787−3224 This can help you identify your issues and will be a way to get help (shelter, money etc) for you and the kids.

Second: Create your own bank account. Does he monitor money very well? No? Start snagging 20 bucks here and there, drop that into your own account. You've got your PayPal, does he have access? No? Ok, good.

Third: Can you afford a bank safety box? I would, for at least 12 months. Put your birth cert in there, both kid's birth certs and the Social Security cards. NOW. Any other very important legal documents, too. Any super important things you want to keep, too. Like necklaces or pictures.

Fourth:Your data on your computer is pretty important for your business and personal contacts. BACK THIS SHIT UP NOW. Make sure you get the OS disks too, those help a lot. Just for computer tech concerns. Change your social media passwords, any passwords you've got. Back up your data NOW to an external drive or USB stick. Save that in your safety box, but also you can upload plain data to {url]www.dropbox.com[/url] or have it included in your Google Contacts. Shit, create a separate email account with just your contacts and don't use it. I keep hard copies, just my preference. Oh, Thought!! Take recent pics of your kid. JUST IN CASE something goes wrong, you've got pics of your kids. I'm being realistic, I hate to think of this as possible, but I'm very very pragmatic.

Fifth: We will help you with that steel spine you've got. Kara's had some serious shit happen. Eisa too. Me too. We've all had bad stuff happen, but we all pitch in to help each other, you've seen it.

Sixth: Understand also if you move or have to leave, you will most likely leave things behind. Consider (truthfully) what is super important aka survival to you.

If you choose to leave, these are important steps to take. Personally, I'd only stay there for a bit to snag the cash. I'm a bitch, but I know I can stand up to this and get through it somewhat. For you, with your childhood upbringing and emotional history, I'd GTFO. The longer you stay there, the longer it will take for you to learn to put yourself first - the pothole of emotional abuse gets bigger every day. Remember that your children are SUPER DUPER important. Would you want to have your emotional abuse from your childhood and your current situation rub off on them? (It already is, trust me, but you can change the amount by changing situations and working on your self-worth) How much do you want to expose them to shit like this? Get treatment for your own anxiety and depression, you will be much more able to work on your self-worth if your brain is settled a little bit.

Part of you is saying LEAVE GODDAMMIT NOW NOW NOW. Part of you is saying BE FAITHFUL IT'S IMPORTANT. Part of you says I'M SCARED SHITLESS. Part of you is saying I CAN TAKE THIS I REALLY CAN.
You're trying to tell yourself to leave. Listen to your gut.

And hugs.

[Kanalah]

He had 'not allowed you' to speak in public. Is this because he was being uber controlling? Was it because he didn't like your speech/vocabulary? (still doesnt excuse it, I'm curious tbh)Whatever it is, it's NOT ACCEPTABLE. You're here now, asking for help. That ^ is just not cool, NOT ACCEPTABLE, this IS a hill to die on.

Actually hubby was the one that spent time with me and helped me to see some of the value in myself.

He doesn't yell at me and doesn't hit me. We do go back and forth occasionally with the snide comments.

My whole reason for making the post to begin with was because I have the Real Life people (and my gut) telling me that it's no big deal, just keep swimming. The Internet people are telling me to run to a battered women's shelter.

I just need to think of him like a cranky customer and make him behave. He forgets that I work my butt off all day too. I also know that I'm not perfect, and being constantly depressed doesn't make things better either.

I know that I'm stressed out and I need to learn to relax.

I promised myself that if he so much as raises a hand to me or the kids, that I'm kicking him back to MIL's house.

Also I do need to talk with a professional someone about being depressed all the time. Chat helps, but I know they'll get tired of my whining.