The Extended Houseguest

[Ghel]

How do you tell a houseguest to get out of your house without sounding like a jerk?

There's going to be a lot of background here. I apologize in advance.

My sister-in-law, "Sally," has an internet boyfriend, "Phillip." Phil lives overseas, but he came to visit for a week about a year ago. He seemed like a nice guy, but I didn't really get to know him. Phil stayed at a hotel, and Sally spent most of her time there with him.

Fast forward to February. Sally tells me Phil is planning on visiting again, but for a longer period of time - several months. Can he stay in my guest bedroom to cut down on his costs while he's here? I agreed, reluctantly. I expected it to be like last time - Phil and Sally would spend all their time together and everything would be hunky dor. Plus I'd get to know the man Sally keeps referring to as my future brother-in-law.

Phil arrived in late March. He's been there over two months, and it's long past time that I wanted him to leave.

It started with the drinking incident. Phil had only been here about 2 weeks. I got home from work one evening, and Phil told me he was going for a walk. He didn't come home for dinner. When the hubby and I went to sleep, he still hadn't come home. We were worried, but figured he's an adult, so he can take care of himself.

About 12:30, we get a call from the police department. “Is this guy your friend?” “Yeah, he’s staying with us.” “He got into a tussle at one of the bars downtown. We can either let him sleep it off here, or we can drop him off with you.” Hubby said bring him home.

After the officer and Hubby convinced Phil to come inside the house, Hubby called Sally. She came over, and the 3 of them had a long talk. At some point during that talk, Phil started calling Sally all sorts of nasty names and even took a swing at her. I figured that was it, that Sally was going to send Phil packing.

But, no, Sally convinced Phil to go to AA, and they patched things up. Phil has been sober since then, but he’s done nothing to improve my view of him. He keeps doing things that set me on edge. No one thing is enough for me to say “get out now,” but they add up to one lousy houseguest.

Phil doesn’t talk to me. If I to talk him, he jumps like he wasn’t expecting sound to be coming out of my face. This has gotten a little better with time, but he still doesn’t say anything more to me than “good morning” and “hi, how was your day?”

Phil doesn’t clean up after himself. He leaves dirty coffee cups all over the house. He doesn’t wipe up spilled coffee or coffee grounds. He leaves his socks and dirty towels on the bathroom floor. He eventually picks them up, but it might be days later. Sally has to come over once a week to help him clean the guest room because he leaves it such a mess. The coffee pot overflowed once, and he never cleaned up the mess. I tried talking to Sally about him being such a pig, and all she said was that she’d talk to him about it.

Phil hasn’t contributed to the house financially. He bought pizza one night, but that hardly makes up for the extra electricity and food he’s been using the rest of the time. Granted, he lost his wallet with all his travelers’ checks the night of the drunken incident, but that should be a reason to cut the trip short, not to sponge off of us the rest of the time.

Twice now, Phil has pulled my laundry out of the dryer to dry his, then put my laundry back in the dryer. There’s perfectly clean laundry baskets in the basement. I wouldn’t mind if he put my laundry in one of the baskets and then left it there, but if he’s not using the baskets, that means he’s either dumping my laundry on the floor or setting it on top of the dusty washer. Plus he apparently doesn’t empty his pockets before washing his clothes because I found 3 cigarette butts and a dime in the washer after he used it last.

I haven’t said much to Phil yet, mostly because I don’t trust myself not to start screaming at him. I’ve tried to talk to Sally about it, but she just keeps making excuses for him. He’s supposed to be staying until August. I don’t think I can handle him being there for another month and a half. Either I’ll kill him or I’ll have a nervous breakdown.

I’ve put up with him for this long because I like Sally. I want to see her happy. So how do I tell Phil to get out without irreparably damaging my relationship with Sally? Hubby feels pretty much the same as me, but he’s even less likely to do anything to damage his relationship with his sister.

[PepperElf]

does sally live there too? or is phil just chilling at your place while he visits her?


if you're not ready to kick him out... perhaps sally should take over the tasks of cleaning up after him. after all she needs to know what kind of mess she's getting into.


although personally, i think she's in for more abuse if he's already trying to hit her

[Ellain]

"Sally, I love you. We were happy to let Phil crash here for a few weeks, but he is a drain both financially and emotionally. We've gotten to the point where we *need* him to leave. We are going to talk to him tomorrow, and give him x days to find somewhere else to stay."

Maybe something along those lines? I mean, giving someone a helping hand is great, but there needs to be a limit somewhere. Since the situation has gotten to this point, I would say you've been more than generous. You need your space, and your life back. I hope everything works out with a minimum of drama for you!

[Pixilated]

Just out of curiosity, why is Phil not staying with Sally, if he's supposedly here to get a relationship going with her? Feel free to tell me to MYOB.

Have you mentioned any of this directly to Phil? "Phil, we'd appreciate it if you didn't leave your dirty socks and towels lying all over the bathroom floor. Please hang the towels over the shower rack and put your clothes in the hamper." "Phil, please don't remove my clothes from the dryer before they're dry." "Phil, please clean up your spills in the kitchen." It's pathetic that you even have to do this, but ...

To be honest, if I had someone wanting to park their guest in my dwelling for a few months, I'd have laid down a rental fee right from the start. Wouldn't be a lot but it would be something, to cover the extra water and hydro and whatnot. A week or two is one thing, but a few months ... to me, it doesn't speak well of either Sally or Phil that they didn't at least make the offer.

Best thing I can think of is for you and hubby to sit down with Sally (not sure if you want to include Phil at this point; I'm thinking just Sally so when you actually tell Phil to get out, she doesn't see it as her being blindsided) and lay it all out for her. No, none of Phil's annoyances are 'GET OUT NOW!!!' incidents in themselves but I can see why in total they are all wearing you down. (Myself, I'd have left him to cool his heels in the jail cell on that first incident ... that was just plain stupid on his part.) He is a lousy guest and unfortunately you can no longer offer him house room. At that point, it's up to Sally and Phil what he will do next.

However, it's true that there may be fallout from that, no matter how politely you express yourself. It may come down to: which is worse, dealing with the fallout or putting up with Phil for another couple of months? That is a decision only you and hubby can make.

PepperElf also has a good point: if you opt to let this guy stay, then Sally needs to come over much more often than once a week to clean up his messes.

Sorry I can't offer anything more upbeat.

[Treasure]

you know what they say about house-guests and fish? after 3 days they need to go....

i agree that Phil should've spent the first night in the drunk-tank, but too late now.

also you've been more than generous - has Phil found a job over here? is he working on getting whatever paperwork needed taken care of so that he can stay? what does he do all day when you and the hubby are at work?

Phil is not your responsibility - 1 he is a grown ass adult and 2 he is in a "relationship" with Sally, not you, not your husband - its time he either started staying with Sally, or goes home.

[Jester]

Seeing the title, I was already to recount my Houseguest of Horror story. But honestly, it doesn't compete with this travesty.

Phil is a sponge, pure and simple. He has a free ride, and he knows it, and is doing nothing, absolutely nothing, to contribute to the household that is so generously letting him stay for free. Hell, does this loser even have a JOB?

Not that that last part matters, because my initial statement still stands. Phil is a sponge.

My advice to you is to lay this all out for Sally, and tell her that either Phil moves in to Sally's place or he goes back whatever rock he crawled out of, but either way, it's time for him to get the hell out of your place.

And then, once Sally understands that this is not negotiable, you tell Phil that he has one week/one day/one minute (whatever you feel is appropriate) to leave your domicile. And explain to Phil that you have been very generous, you have opened your home to him, and he has contributed squat, so it's time for him to go.

He may very well argue with you. Make it clear that he has two options: leave within the time frame given, or leave RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

Personally, I'd toss his ass out yesterday, and if Sally doesn't understand, well, she's not much of a friend to you guys, is she?

[HYHYBT]

The point of carrying traveler's checks instead of cash is that they can be replaced if they're lost or stolen.

[Ghel]

Sally lives across town. The reasons Phil's staying with us and not her have nothing to do with why I don't want him staying with us any more.

I haven't said much to Phil about his slobbishness, mainly for the reasons stated in the OP: every time I try to say anything to him (even just "I made some koolaid. Help yourself."), he jumps, like I startled him. It makes talking to him very difficult.

There was some talk of rent before he arrived, but no amount was specified and Phil hasn't paid us anything. Except for a local music festival a couple weekends ago, Phil hasn't been working. This is like an extended holiday for him.

Thanks for the advice, everybody. I talked to Hubby at lunch, and he told me it was my decision. So I'm going to talk to Sally after work. And when Hubby gets home (usually an hour after I do), I'll rope him into talking to Phil with me. I'll give Phil 2 weeks to find another place to stay or book airfare home. And I'm never going to agree to let anybody stay in my house for more than 2 nights again!

ETA: I don't know if Phil ever reported the traveler's checks stolen. I didn't know that they were stolen until long after the night of the drunken incident, when Sally mentioned it to me. I didn't know he'd lost his passport, either, until Sally mentioned it. This guy doesn't talk to me. I don't even know if he's going to be home until I get there. Sometimes, Sally drops him off half an hour or later after I get home. I'm mad at her about this, too.

[AccountingDrone]

I would imagine that he does not have a job back at his home country ... not many jobs let you take 3-4 months off, even in Europe. Gently mention him to INS if he doesn't shape up. He probably came over on some sort of vacation visa, and I think [but am not certain] they are time limited to 3 months. If he worked at the music festival, he may have done it illegally, and be liable to be deported. Does he even have a return ticket or did he sell it for drinking money?

[Pixilated]

Sally lives across town. The reasons Phil's staying with us and not her have nothing to do with why I don't want him staying with us any more.

I understand that, Ghel -- it's Phil himself and his little quirks that are the issue.

I haven't said much to Phil about his slobbishness, mainly for the reasons stated in the OP: every time I try to say anything to him (even just "I made some koolaid. Help yourself."), he jumps, like I startled him. It makes talking to him very difficult.

Sounds as if it's hubby who should be talking to him, if you scare the poor guy so badly.

There was some talk of rent before he arrived, but no amount was specified and Phil hasn't paid us anything. Except for a local music festival a couple weekends ago, Phil hasn't been working. This is like an extended holiday for him.

Thanks for the advice, everybody. I talked to Hubby at lunch, and he told me it was my decision. So I'm going to talk to Sally after work. And when Hubby gets home (usually an hour after I do), I'll rope him into talking to Phil with me. I'll give Phil 2 weeks to find another place to stay or book airfare home. And I'm never going to agree to let anybody stay in my house for more than 2 nights again!

Very good ideas-- especially that last one!!

ETA: I don't know if Phil ever reported the traveler's checks stolen. I didn't know that they were stolen until long after the night of the drunken incident, when Sally mentioned it to me. I didn't know he'd lost his passport, either, until Sally mentioned it. This guy doesn't talk to me. I don't even know if he's going to be home until I get there. Sometimes, Sally drops him off half an hour or later after I get home. I'm mad at her about this, too.

Some good suggestions from others as well. I particularly like the one about having a short chat with INS if Phil doesn't haul his butt out of your house in the time you give him ...
It does sound as if he thinks he's got himself indefinite free room and board so he's in no hurry to change anything.

[Jester]

Sally lives across town. The reasons Phil's staying with us and not her have nothing to do with why I don't want him staying with us any more.

They are also not your problem, now are they.

But wait, let's think about why Phil may be better off staying with you rather than Sally.

1. Your place is closer to his job. Oh, wait...he doesn't have one.
2. He is sleeping with someone in your place. Oh, wait...he's sleeping with Sally, who doesn't live there.
3. He's a lazy, shiftless bum who's taking this free ride as far as he can take it.
4. Sally's a lousy friend, and pawned this loser off on you so she doesn't have to deal with him full time.
5. You and your husband are soft touches.

I think I can see at least 3 options here that I would vote for.

Look, whether it was intentional on Phil and Sally's part or not, you and your husband have been had, and have been taken for fools who will allow someone to stay for a long time at your place with no compensation. Time for you two to correct this mistake and move on with your Phil-less (and perhaps Sally-less) future.

[Ghel]

My talk with Sally didn't go as bad as I'd feared, but what happened after was bizarre. When I got home from work, Sally was just leaving. I asked her to come back inside, and told her I didn't want Phil staying with us any more. There was more to the discussion, but she said two things that pissed me off: "I already told <Hubby> that I was looking for another place for him." [When I relayed this to Hubby, he responded that she'd only said that she'd asked "Jade", her grown daughter, if Phil could stay with her and her fiance. But Jade had said no because they didn't have room.] And "he knows he's not welcome here." As if that was somehow our fault and not Phil's.

But I let it slide. I told Sally I wanted to put a time limit on it. That we'd give Phil 2 weeks to find another place to stay or book airfare home. She scowled but didn't argue about it.

Sally went outside and talked to Phil for about 15 minutes before she left. When Phil came inside, he deliberately avoided me. At some point in the next hour, Phil left the house. I didn't notice at first that he'd left, since it's a big house and he never talks to me anyway.

When 10:00pm came and went, we started to worry that he was out getting drunk again. So Hubby called his sister, and Sally told us that he was staying at a hotel for the night. So nice of somebody to let us know. I want to know how Phil can afford a hotel but can't afford to pay us rent.



As for the Sally-less future that Jester foresees, I don't want that. And that's been the stumbling block this whole time. Yes, I recognize that Sally has taken advantage of us time and again, but there's a reason we allow that. Sally has a life-threatening illness. Well, two actually. One of the two will probably kill her within the next 10 years. Probably quite a bit less. So when she says, "this could be the last thing I ever ask of you," it's only half a joke.

So please lay off the victim-blaming. That wasn't the point of the thread.

[Jester]

I want to know how Phil can afford a hotel but can't afford to pay us rent.

Oh, that's a simple one. He CAN afford to pay you rent. He just HASN'T. Why? That's easy, too. He's a sponge, and he's been taking advantage of your generosity. He is not a good person, and that should be clear to you now.

I just hope that this idiot's parasitical nature won't leave you and Hubby jaded towards doing good deed for worthy people in the future.

[Andara Bledin]

Just from your descriptions, this guy is setting off alarms in my head.

Honestly, I believe that if he actually did lose his traveler's checks (which is highly likely, but also could just be a lie to get you to give him a free ride), then he probably had them replaced without telling anybody (to keep getting that free ride).

That, and somebody (or multiple somebodies) among you has played the "but sister could be dead next week" card and kept it in play. Which really isn't fair to anyone involved (except for the person or people who want it to be that way). Any single one of us could be dead next week, life-threatening illness or no. I have known over a dozen completely healthy adults who are no longer with us with far less warning than someone with a potentially-terminal prognosis has. Such a situation should never be used as an excuse for people to be made to think that they should have to do things that make them unhappy just on the off chance that it is the last thing that is asked of you. Because, quite honestly, that can be said of every single person on this planet.

^-.-^

[Ghel]

Sally tells us that Phil isn't coming back. Good. We still haven't heard anything from Phil. I guess I shouldn't have expected him to explain or apologize to us, considering his level of communication with us so far.

When Sally heard that Phil had left the guest room a mess when he left in a huff, she said she would come over and clean it. But she said it in a way that made it sound like we were putting an undue burden on her. If she had come right out and said it, I would have told her no, it's Phil that's placing the burden on you, and stop with the martyr complex. But she hasn't been so blunt, and neither have I.

I'm glad he's gone. His behavior the whole time he was here, especially when he found out I didn't want him to stay any longer, was extremely childish. I can't say that he ever lied to me, but that's only because he never talked to me.