Hair

[Sharsarannon]

We had a guy witht he same problem at my work. They let him keep his hair if he put it all up under a hat while at work. Try going in for a chat with them with your hair done like that. Odds are good they'll be Stupid and just assume you cut it, or be pleased that your hair does not go past your collar anymore.

[Strange Magic]

Post 14-"I'm probably going to side with your prospective company on this one. In most parts of the english-speaking world, long hair is one of the ways many males express rebellion; that they have a 'tude and they want everyone to know it; and other non-conformist viewpoints. I'm not saying that every male with long hair has that attitude (from personal experience), nor am I judging you or anyone else with long hair-- but one of the facts of life is that people who think they're rebels and non-conformists tend to dress like other people who think they're rebels and non-conformists."
That was a case of sterotyping at it's worst with a couple of disclaimers in ...


post 61-Most businesses want their employees to present a professional appearance. Right or wrong- most people do not consider long hair on a man as professional appearance.

At my last job we had a guy with medium length hair for awhile. I had so many customer complaints about his appearance I was ready to chop his hair off myself.

Horrible...just horrible to take that attitude. I'm not saying to call the customer off. But they should know that it's not accptable to voice those kinds of thoughts about people.


Post #64 "
Yep. Quite a few as a matter of fact. Generally, they'd be just "shocked" that a major corporation trying to present a certain "image" to the public would allow such a thing. I also think that the area you work in has a lot to do with it. I work in a county full of wealthy people.

Just so you know- I personally don't care if a man's hair is long if it's well kept during work hours. However, I also believe that a corporation has the right to set standards of how it's employees will look as well. And as Jester said: men and women are not the same and therefore are not going to have exactly the same rules.

I also think if those of you who think it's discrimination look it up you'll find it isn't.
Companies cannot discriminate based on gender, sexual preference, religion, color, over 40 years of age, disabilities, marital status or national origin.
I believe 'sexual orientation' and 'marital status' are dependant upon the state you live in.
I think you'll be hard pressed to find any law that says anything about hair length."

While not said in a hateful way ,I feel it's that kind of thinking that helps companys stay in this dark ages mode of thinking. If so many people don't mind long hair on guys then why don't they speak up in favor and help get stupid things like that out of corperate mentality?
The laws should be made to reflect some needed protection if that kind of mentality can't or won't be stamped out of the public perception.

Post 70-"No. But then, most employers (not counting the military) are not requiring such haircuts, either. Short and conservative is not the same as Wally and the Beav, my friend."
Yes it is...if it's being dictated that you MUST have a short haircut to stay employeed.


Those are my examples and I think they are sound. I did not list the posters names because I don't want folks to think I'm launching a salvo attack on individual members.

[KuzcoLlama]

Those are my examples and I think they are sound. I did not list the posters names because I don't want folks to think I'm launching a salvo attack on individual members.

You know it takes a grand total of a few minutes to find whose posts you're referencing to.

[Ree]

I used to complain about my hair until I met a girl who had none.
Lalalalala...this has been a mental moment from Ree. We now return to our very important discussion of hair.

[Strange Magic]

You know it takes a grand total of a few minutes to find whose posts you're referencing to.

Yes...but if folks go and look it can't be percieved that I'm making a direct call out for a show down with individuals as that's not the intent...

[Gabrielle Proctor]

Interesting. Do they require that women wear make-up and heels? Fuck that.

[ArenaBoy]

Hello everyone my name is Arenaboy and I occasionally grow my hair out. I have no problems with people who have long hair. I agree that in today's times where norms have been broken big time. I know more than a few guys who have long hair, one of them has it in dreads so long that Marley himself would be jealous. He is by far one of the nicest people I have had the privilege of meeting. He does work in an office and no one cares how he looks.

The biggest assholes I've ever seen hide behind suits and ties."

I agree with this big time. Granted I've gotten customers who dress nice and treat me nicely, but a lot of the pricks I've gotten tend to be on the nicer scale of dress. While I've had folks who had long hair or something about them be mean to me also. My friends happen to have strange ways of dressing and they don't care what others think.


As for the older folks being scared, when I grew my hair out my mom approved of it, she did tell me that if my great-grandmother were still alive then I'd bail myself out of it. My great-grandmother was pretty much a bitch as I learned recently. She's done many things to piss people off but one thing that really irked me about her was her views on long hair. She'd hassle some poor clerk (Male with long hair) to no end. She'd blatantly say things like "Excuse me Miss" (Large emphasis on the Miss part) and would find out it's a guy (Granted she knew it was half the time) and make a rude remark. She'd probably hassle me to no end if I grew my hair out and I probably would've given her hell for it. She was a bitch to no end.

My other great-grandmother on the other hand, didn't hassle me about it. When I went to see her with long hair and all, she simply told me that as much as she didn't like it, it's my choice and not hers. My grandfather, an ex-Army man didn't care if I had long hair.

Point being that not all elders look down upon people with long hair and make loud rude comments about it. Some elders may complain but IMO they just want to complain.

As for the hair and character statement: Those who think that long hair is a rebellious thing, it is to kids who just want to piss others off because they aren't getting what they want. The only reason I let my hair go long was at one point I didn't have enough time to go get a haircut and lo and behold my driver's license photo is of me with long hair. A few months later after I got that photo, I decided to get it cut after a race because of the heat. After that haircut, I grew it out again immediately and got it cut before school ended of that year.
Getting back on my original train of thought, hair should not be a judge of character. The only things I make an exception for when it comes to hair is tying it back as it not only looks professional but said guy can keep his long hair. For jobs such as food service and the military I can understand as to why hair has to be cut but other than that people tend to do the whole judge a person by the way they look scenario instead of getting to know the person for who they are. If people are going to complain about hair length, IMO it just shows that one has nothing better to with their lives. My job doesn't like guys having long hair or facial hair (Except for a mustache) but I went ahead and broke the long hair rule a few times, notably during the winter because I could hide my hair in a hat. Again, those who complain about people having long hair just have nothing better to do. The way a person looks is not the way a person is, we tend to forget that a lot.

I'm sorry for the long rant but I've had complete strangers walk up to me and make comments about my hair, one incident was a music store worker who didn't have the stones to tell me to get a haircut to my face but wrote it on the bag of my purchase. When it gets to the point of one telling someone to do something that's not part of them or doesn't belong to them it upsets me greatly.

[Gurndigarn]

Post 14-"I'm probably going to side with your prospective company on this one. In most parts of the english-speaking world, long hair is one of the ways many males express rebellion; that they have a 'tude and they want everyone to know it; and other non-conformist viewpoints. I'm not saying that every male with long hair has that attitude (from personal experience), nor am I judging you or anyone else with long hair-- but one of the facts of life is that people who think they're rebels and non-conformists tend to dress like other people who think they're rebels and non-conformists."

That was a case of sterotyping at it's worst with a couple of disclaimers in ...

That was me, and I'll stand by what I said. Looking at the customer base I had over the years, I would say that if someone came in dressed out of the cultural norm (long hair for men, shaved hair for women, colored/spiked hair, excessively ratty clothes, etc), there was about a 1-in-3 chance that they would act like complete assholes, as opposed to under 1-in-50 for the general populace (figures are very rough, I know. Nonetheless, those are the best guesses I can come up with.)

So is it stereotyping? OK, if you want to call it that. But it's with a damn good reason. This isn't racial stereotyping. These people choose to look the way they do. They weren't born with a green and purple mohawk; the clothes came from the store without any noticable gang insignia/way of wearing; and yes, most people choose to find a barber on a regular basis.

Do I think that all people who chose not to fit into the social norm are all jerks and assholes? Hell, no! Many people in my family do things SF/F fandom, and I don't do much only because of time constraints. However, do I think I should require my employees to dress/groom themselves within "normal" fashion? Hell, yes! As I said, it not only reassures the mothers who timidly bring their offspring into that sinkhole of depravity known as the local arcade, but it means that customers who want to be assholes are less likely to assume that the person on duty will go along with them.

Stereotyping? Yeah. But you know something. My customers do it. Essentially all of them. Why? Well, they've experienced the same things I have. So they feel more comfortable around people who look more professional. And y'know? My job is to make as much money for my company as possible. Which means that I need my customers to feel comfortable.

I rather suspect that long hair for men will be more acceptable in a generation or so, possibly less, and generally accepted by pieces, the same way that beards were a serious no-no when I was young but are generally accepted now. However, it's not there yet, at least not in any place I've lived in in the past fifteen years. So I will not be embarrased by making it a requirement for work.

[Strange Magic]

I used to work in a pawnshop in a very crappy section of Waco Texxas and most of my customers were people of the worst sort. But if I had assumed that all of them were like that because of the way they dressed or wore thier hair it would have been grossly unfair and wrong on my part.
When I was younger all the peole in my group of running buddys were all of the typical headbanger with denim and leather while we tried to look tough...but we were always nice and polite even though we looked like we would eat people for lunch...We made it a point to be that way to make people rethink those intial assesments and make them feel small. (And if they had any sort of conscience they did feel diminished)

[Ree]

*yawn* I feel like popcorn.
Anyone want popcorn?



"My concern today is not with the length of a person's hair but with his conduct."
-- Richard M. Nixon

[Rapscallion]

Let's recap.

You've found one poster out of a large thread who said how things should be. The rest, from what I can see, are pointing out the simple fact that if you want someone's money, most of the time they are going to be able to call the shots, and they only do it because that's what society as a whole demands.

Is it right? Not really, but I don't see why anyone should get into a blood-boiling rage. It's not exactly as if it won't grow back or it hurts to have it cut, unlike circumcision, for example.

Vent about it if you like - that's what this board is for - but this is not a groundbase for you to start a protest movement. We've got a debate forum over at Fratching if you're desperate to go on about this, but calm down on here.

Rapscallion

[iradney]

Personally, I have no problem with long hair. As long as the hair is clean and neat I really couldn't give a frog. Hair that is dirty, greasy, messy *shudder* is gross, regardless of the length. Heck, back when I worked at the CD shop, our top salesperson was a tall blonde guy with long (waist length), silky hair. On the flip side, I had short spikey hair, and no-one had a problem with it, even though girls are traditionally the ones with long hair.

[NightAngel]

You know it takes a grand total of a few minutes to find whose posts you're referencing to.

This is the easiest problem I've solved all day! In order:

Gurndigam, me, me again, more me... just mostly me... and then Jester.

Ree! Pass the popcorn!


mmmm... butter!

[tollbaby]

*yawn* I feel like popcorn.
Anyone want popcorn?

hot buttered?

[Jester]

Reminds me of argument I once had with my aunt. She said something like, "Would you do business with a bank that had an employee with a mohawk?"
I said, "Hell yes. That must mean he's really good at his job and has nothing to hide. The biggest assholes I've ever seen hide behind suits and ties."

Reminds me of a story from someone in my family about a discussion at a wedding between one of the ushers and an old biddy who had nothing better than to do than to get on his case. Seems this particular usher had long hair and a full beard. And although he was well dressed in the requisite tuxedo and was groomed nicely, she just had to butt her nose where it didn't belong. As I recall, the convo went something like this....

OLD BIDDY: "That is just so disrespectful!"
USHER: "Excuse me?"
OLD BIDDY: "You show up at a wedding looking like that? You couldn't even be bothered to cut your hair or shave? I can't think of a single respectful or respectable person who would do that, young man!"
USHER: "Pardon me, ma'am, but I can."
OLD BIDDY: "Really? And just who might that be?"
USHER: "Jesus."
OLD BIDDY:

And THAT was the end of THAT conversation!

I rather suspect that long hair for men will be more acceptable in a generation or so, possibly less, and generally accepted by pieces, the same way that beards were a serious no-no when I was young but are generally accepted now. However, it's not there yet, at least not in any place I've lived in in the past fifteen years.

I would like to somewhat disagree. No, it isn't there yet, but long hair, etc., are far more acceptable now than just 20 years ago. Hell, I got shit when I was in college for long hair, and now I know lawyers and other "professional" types with such dos. And I know I am not the only one here that remembers when tattoos and piercings were NOT common things. I am odd in my generation in that I don't have a single tattoo or piercing. And despite that and my no longer long hair, many people still consider me a bit of a rebel, thank you very much.