do you really think you'll get sued?

[PepperElf]

just something i've observed of late with fanfics...

People familiar with fanfics (either writing them or just reading them) are also familiar with the habit of putting disclaimers at the top of the story, proclaiming that "I don't own this" in various forms, some even putting in "please don't sue me" requests.


What I find funny is when they do this with stories that are in the public domain.

Now in some cases I understand the need. Say, people writing "Phantom of the Opera" fanfics. If they ONLY use the original story by Gaston Lerox then yeah it's public domain. But if they use the half-mask* or any of the songs or scenes from the musical (or movie) then they'd need a disclaimer.

But for stuff based ONLY on books in the public domain... it's kinda obvious that the fanfic writer doesn't the characters from the original body of work. And it's even more obvious that the original authors are not going to sue them. Although ... if they did I'm sure it would make for a spectacular headline.... either as a miracle or as the sign of the zombie apocalypse.

So ... I dunno, if I ever write a fanfic based on a story like that... I'm thinking I'll just put down "I don't need a disclaimer; <story> is in the public domain."



*half-mask: it only exists in the musical adaptation, not the original story. IIRC they made the change because Michael Crawford couldn't show as much expression with a full mask on

[AmbrosiaWriter]

Don't you only sue for copyright infringement if the person copying is somehow making a profit/making money off of it?

[Jay 2K Winger]

Don't you only sue for copyright infringement if the person copying is somehow making a profit/making money off of it?

IANAL, but most of the lawsuits for copyright infringement are about that.

There are some that either sue or demand for copyright-infringing material to be taken down immediately because if you don't defend your copyright, you can lose it. I believe there are some source-material that Fanfiction.Net will not host, like anything Ann Rice-created.

[starsinthesky]

People can and will sue for any infringement. They have to defend the copyright or risk losing it.

[PepperElf]

People can and will sue for any infringement. They have to defend the copyright or risk losing it.

There are some that either sue or demand for copyright-infringing material to be taken down immediately because if you don't defend your copyright, you can lose it. I believe there are some source-material that Fanfiction.Net will not host, like anything Ann Rice-created.

yeah but her stuff doesn't count. it's still under copyright and she's still very much alive. so it won't be "public domain" for a long long time.


By "public domain" I'm referring to stories where both the copyrights AND the original author are expired. In those cases there's really no one who CAN sue for damages. Even their "estates" are dead and gone.


That's why Seth Grahame- Smith can get away with making a zombie version of "Pride & Prejudice" for example and publish it as being "Co-written". It's not like Jane Austen is gonna sue him from the grave. Although ... well that'd be funny if it happened, considering the mashup WAS about zombies...

[suburbandecay]

People can and will sue for any infringement. They have to defend the copyright or risk losing it.

You lose trademarks if you don't defend them. If I remember correctly, copyright belongs to the owner until the time limit is up. They can at any time choose to enforce their rights.

[Jay 2K Winger]

yeah but her stuff doesn't count. it's still under copyright and she's still very much alive. so it won't be "public domain" for a long long time.

By "public domain" I'm referring to stories where both the copyrights AND the original author are expired. In those cases there's really no one who CAN sue for damages. Even their "estates" are dead and gone.

In those cases, it's just a matter of the fanfic author not doing their research to that effect, and realizing the work they're deriving from is public domain.

[Kheldarson]

Some things have weird rules around them, like Peter Pan is owned by a foundation which even Disney pays money to and the author of the official sequel had to have permission from to publish.

I always found a "These characters are not mine, they were originally created by X" to be effective at covering all bases.

[Freak]

While a lot of people are probably just making that disclaimer out of ignorance, there is a lot to be said for forming good habits. If you get into the habit of just putting a disclaimer on any fanfic you write, then you'll be fine when you write a fanfic about something not in the public domain.

[Sapphire Silk]

Don't you only sue for copyright infringement if the person copying is somehow making a profit/making money off of it?

Writing fanfic is always dicey. It really depends on the attitude of the copyright holder and the nature of the fanfic.

It all depends on how you interpret "fair use." Fair use covers satirical or humorous takes on the original work: that's why Family Guy and South Park can get away with their rips on modern media. It also covers anything written for a review or for educational use.

Some copyright holders aren't interested in dinging fanfic, and view it as a good way to promote the original produce. Marvel and DC comics are good examples of this. Before the internet, fanfic was often published via Amateur Press Associations (APAs). I was involved with one that was RPG based back in the 90's: the members contribute their fiction to an "editor" who puts the magazine together and sends it out to the membership. The only cost is a regular contribution to the "editor" for postage.

When the Net came out, fanfic quickly moved there and has been a staple of it for years.

Warner Bros, OTOH, aggressively shut down fan fic based on its movies, especially the Harry Potter series. They sent out take down notices to some great fan websites and most of them are now gone, or in hock to Warner.

Some things have weird rules around them, like Peter Pan is owned by a foundation which even Disney pays money to and the author of the official sequel had to have permission from to publish.

I always found a "These characters are not mine, they were originally created by X" to be effective at covering all bases.

That's dicey. If the copyright holder finds out, they can send you a takedown notice if the property is still in copyright. In the US, that's 70 years. Other countries have different rules but if you are in the US and violate a UK copyright, you can still get dinged; US courts will support the UK copyright.

The major media companies have gotten very good at finding ways to extend these copyrights. Mickey Mouse (via Steamboat Willie) is supposed to be in the public domain now, but I wouldn't risk the wrath of Disney on it.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

IIRC, Disney keeps managing to lobby their way into extending the Copyright term, which is why it is 70 years now. Mickey Mouse keeps getting close to coming off copyright and entering public domain, and when that happens Disney is going to lose a ton of money. So what do they do? Successfully lobby to have the copyright term lengthened - so Mickey stays in copyright.

[PepperElf]

Warner Bros, OTOH, aggressively shut down fan fic based on its movies, especially the Harry Potter series. They sent out take down notices to some great fan websites and most of them are now gone, or in hock to Warner.

Hmm. they probably know about fanfiction.net but... I still see 630,159 HP fanfics there (and I won't even touch how weird some of the pairings are... let's just say they've gone "rule 34" on that one).

now for the NSFW sites... looks like one of the more famous sites has indeed been stripped of Harry Potter (save for some crossovers). However there's some lesser known sites that still are quite active. One of my favorite sites has over 6500 stories, some of which ... let's just say some of them are hot enough to melt adamantium.


I'm working on a new fanfic right now myself. kinda. I actually have 2.5 stories in my head, but the one i'm actually putting on my ipod touch (just started it tonight) is from a novel that's in the public domain. not sure if i'll publish it though. i hate publishing "Work in progress" and like to wait until it's complete. so far i only have a prologue written, and although it would work as a (very short) stand-alone, I'd like to put more in than just one page.

[Android Kaeli]

When I was actively writing fanfics, I would ALWAYS put some kind of disclaimer at the top of each chapter that basically said I didn't own the characters, the places used [real or otherwise], or anything that remotely resembled what and/or who I was writing about. That was just to cover myself in case some nut decided to go after the people who were/are writing in that fandom.

Crazy? Yes, but in this day and age people can and will sue for anything and everything.

[spark]

The problem with a "These characters do not belong to me" disclaimer is that legally all you're doing is saying "I know I have no right to do this."

Think about it for a moment. It's like saying "This car doesn't belong to me" as a defense when you're pulled over for joyriding. As a legal defense it's actually worse than useless, it's an admission of guilt.

As a courtesy, however, to the creators who have made such wonderful things that one can't help but want to play with them a little, I think it's well worth doing, because realistically lawsuits over fanfiction are perishingly rare, so you don't really need a legal defense.

But people who think it's a legal defense are, in my mind at least, being a bit silly. How does declaring that you know perfectly well you don't own this stuff give you any legal right to use it as though you do?

[SongsOfDragons]

Some things have weird rules around them, like Peter Pan is owned by a foundation which even Disney pays money to and the author of the official sequel had to have permission from to publish.

Said foundation being the one and only Great Ormond Street children's hospital in London. Disney wouldn't dare touch them (as they did Winnie The Pooh IIRC) for fear of the massive negative PR.

I've collab-d on two fics where the base story has been public domain - Pride and Prejudice and Baden Powell's Scouting For Boys (seriously. It worked really well too. Our fanfic group like finding/inventing obscure fandoms ) We didn't even mention a disclaimer in the former, though in the latter we did, simply mentioning that it was now in the public domain as it had only just passed into it at the time of writing.

My last 'disclaimer' on my last fic was "Insert usual legally worthless spiel about ownership, and how I do not, etc." Generally we cover who wrote it and where we are in the fandom's chronology, and if it's obscure - like my love of Maggie Furey - I tend to pimp it a little. As in, "Go read these!!"

I personally like the attitude that Terry Pratchett has with fanworks. "You can make anything the hell you want, but I own it all. That way if someone makes a fan film of such-and-such, and then a studio who wants to do a feature film of such-and-such asks me if anyone else has done one before, I can say 'Yes, but I own it'." (That's paraphrased from what he actually said - I don't know where, it's probably on his website, but I like what he said so much I practically memorised it )