do you really think you'll get sued?

[PepperElf]

interesting. never really tried discworld fanfics myself. i do know some authors refuse to read them (like neil gaiman) cos IIRC he doesn't want to run into any risk of a fan suing him for "stealing" ideas from their fanfics. and also... because he frankly doesn't want fans sending him stuff to read in hopes that he'll get them published etc.

[Geek King]

Fun Story: Some friends and I went to see Jim Butcher (Dresden Files, Codex Alera) at a book signing/author Q&A. A young lady in the audience ask how he felt about the Dresden fanfic available. His quote, to the best of my remembering, was, "I am not aware of any fanfic involving my characters. If I was officially aware of such things, I would be forced to file a lawsuit to show I was protecting my intellectual property, and that would be awful for me since it would likely be written by a fan of my work. Everybody understands how that goes, right?"

All questions about fanfics were dropped for the rest of the event.

[Seshat]

Don't you only sue for copyright infringement if the person copying is somehow making a profit/making money off of it?

No.

The inestimable Tateru Nino (who writes like me but isn't me) says it better than I do, so I'll provide two links.

And you thought pro writing was easy


Derived works & franchises

[ComputerNecromancer]

Don't you only sue for copyright infringement if the person copying is somehow making a profit/making money off of it?

Common misconception. The copyright owner can sue for statutory damages even if you *aren't* making money off it. And those run $10-$100 *per copy* (on the web, that means per *hit* on the page!). And the damages have been raised higher than that upon occasion. (like over $1000)

[EricKei]

It all depends on how you interpret "fair use." Fair use covers satirical or humorous takes on the original work: that's why Family Guy and South Park can get away with their rips on modern media. It also covers anything written for a review or for educational use.

I have wondered about that before, though the two shows do seem to treat the issue differently...

SP (usually but not always) tends to spoof others' work, which may very well fall under Fair Use as a form of parody.

FG, as often as not, lifts scenes/songs/dialogue from other works wholesale (tho they do plenty of true parody), and I imagine that they pay a pretty penny for the right to do so.

The problem with a "These characters do not belong to me" disclaimer is that legally all you're doing is saying "I know I have no right to do this."

...

But people who think it's a legal defense are, in my mind at least, being a bit silly. How does declaring that you know perfectly well you don't own this stuff give you any legal right to use it as though you do?

It doesn't. If the companies that own the source material feel that it is worth their time, and the potential negative publicity, they have every right to pursue the matter in court. My guess is, they would win. It's just that, to the best of my knowledge, they generally do not bother.

Don't you only sue for copyright infringement if the person copying is somehow making a profit/making money off of it?

No.

The inestimable Tateru Nino (who writes like me but isn't me) says it better than I do, so I'll provide two links.

Precisely. Our sages here knoweth that of which they speak ^_^

I love how I see people posting entire videos on YouTube (etc) with similar "disclaimers", and they generally aren't even derivative works; they're the originals!

[Teskeria]

I always found a "These characters are not mine, they were originally created by X" to be effective at covering all bases.

Only works if the original author is not paranoid. For Example, Andre Norton allowed and encouraged fanfic. as Llong as you acknowledged her as the creator and kept true to her work. She was an amazing writer.

Mercedes Lackey on the other hand, perhaps because she ISN'T as good, will sue at the first hint of fanfic. Indeed, even her 'fan club' members are required to put hours of work into becoming members. She gets bored with stuff she is writing and expects fans to instantly jump to and adore what she wants to write now, and blames them if they don't like it. (She has the right to write whatever she wants. However, getting mad because it isn't popular is juvenile.)

Better to stick to stuff where no-one owns the copyright, or stuff where the owner allows fanfic as long as you remain true to their world and acknowledge them.

[EricKei]

Well, Norton COULD go the Lackey route (in terms of the copyright bit) if she wanted to -- my guess is, she just asks whomever is her Legal representative not to do so. As for Lackey's attitude in general...it's her right, but it sounds a tad extreme. I was unaware of this issue.

I suppose it depends...in a situation where the author does NOT own the rights to their own work (used to be commonplace in comics writing, and it may still be that way, for all I know), the owning entity (often the publisher) could go ahead and sue fan-writers even if the author DID "allow" readers to write fanfics. Whether any author, or any company, would actually go to the trouble is often a matter of money.

Tho, once in a while, you get authors who disallow all derivatives, for their own reasons, money be damned. Bill Watterson (of "Calvin and Hobbes") is known for both keeping a tight reign on his works (meaning: if it's not in the newspaper/website or in one of his books, it's bootleg) AND for not allowing the publishers to license his characters for things like plushies and greeting cards.

[PepperElf]

I don't think Andre Norton is going to be doing that any time soon. She's been dead since 2005.

[EricKei]

PE - Aww. I wasn't aware, mea culpa. Been a while since I read anything by her, but I do enjoy her work. Feel free to substitute "her estate/publishers" if you like ~_~

[PepperElf]

it's ok. i was wondering myself why i hadn't seen anything new from her for a while... and then i looked that up a few days ago.

[Sundassa]

I was reading this, but what confused me was the Harry Potter/Warner Bro thing, you do realize that Warner Brother's doesn't have publishing rights, just rights to make the movies. Fan fictions based off the stories are still JK Rowling's domain, by my understanding of written works rights. I am sure they had also purchased the rights to franchise with games and toys too. Bloomsbury Publishing and Arthur A Levine books, and of course JK Rowling, have rights to publishing.

I initially saw a lot of her going after different authors for similar works, but I realized that some of the names were borrowed from movies of the 80's. For example, Harry Potter, was the name of a boy who had to fight a troll to prevent him from turning the world how he wants it. Movie name 'Troll' filmed, 1986. And, a lot of inspirations and similarities to the movie Labyrinth (1986 movie), like Hogwart for example.

But, I think they've stopped going after fan fictions a long time ago. Warner Brothers even had a forum that had allowed people to post their stuff.

I haven't done anything fanfiction associated for a while though. But I do participate in a PBEM based off the Star Trek series, I don't think that is the same though, because they don't use ANY of the original characters.

[DGoddessChardonnay]

I always found a "These characters are not mine, they were originally created by X" to be effective at covering all bases.

That's pretty much what I did years ago when I started my fanfic site . . . IIRC I think I ended mine with something along the lines of "I'll return the original characters back to their owners when I'm through playing with them."

But then it's better to be safe than sorry, especially if you're writing television series-based fanfic.

[PepperElf]

troll movie
wow.... yeah his name IS harry potter.

It's possible that she borrowed references from that story. I'm pretty sure she's done it with other characters. For example... in The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco, the herbalist is named ... Severinus of Sankt Wendel. Gee sounds close to "Severus" a potions master.

Although I don't consider that copying as much as a tribute. at least with severinus/severus.



actually one of the stories that's been in my head for 20 years now - i've never really gotten it down right - started out like that... Not exactly a fanfic, but heavily inspired by Terry Brooks' "Wishsong of Shannara", especially with some heavy borrowing of Alanon the druid. Only i renamed him to " and made him a foot taller. I also pretty much stole Steve Howe from Yes cos I was bored.

Since then the un-written story has morphed into its own world. Pretty much the ONLY thing it has in common with Shannara these days is that ... it has a druid, and the druid's name starts with "A". And no, he's no longer 8 feet tall! (what was I thinking?) Steve hasn't been looked at recently so his participation may change... he ended up becoming the hero of the story, but hey maybe i should give him a bit of a face lift too.


Oh and Yeah... I tried writing a phantom of the opera fanfic. I got the prologue finished but i want to make it strictly leroux, so i will probably have to edit that. can't remember if madame Giry was the ballet mistress in the book - i know she was the box keeper though. perhaps that was an ALW invention

ahhh... Yes it WAS an ALW invention! according to wiki she was just a concierge and her daughter was in the ballet. but she herself was not the ballet mistress

[KatherineB]

Most if not all authors have to accept that people are going to borrow/parody/pay homage to their characters in some way, even if it's unintentional. My concern with that kind of thing is when they rip off direct chunks of text or if the entire text is a blow-by-blow copy. Otherwise getting hot and bothered about it is a surefire way to upset your possible future market, which is never a good idea.

[MoonCat]

I like the Jim Butcher quote. I'm aware of other authors who've said basically the same thing: Do what you want but don't tell me about it, and we'll both be happy.

I recall once reading something on fanfiction.net, where the author of a story wrote: "Disclaimer: Oh eat me bitches."

Granted, it was a multi-part story and she'd already written the usual 'these characters aren't mine yada yada' on the first several chapters...