Betty The Restauranteur

[dalesys]

... So who will start that ball rolling?

Rollin' rollin' rollin' ... Frawdhide!

[taxguykarl]

We're going to go over all this again Monday and see what we can come up with. Betty and her husband haven't come in yet, but that's probably just as well.

Sooner or later this nonsense has to end. So who will start that ball rolling?

[Pixelated]

This puzzles me. She has lots of business you say...wtf is she spending all her money on?

I once rented a room in a large house owned by a single guy. He had, IIRC, at least three other tenants besides myself. No idea where HIS money went but the utilities were constantly being threatened with shutoffs due to delayed or nonpayment of bills.

One guy got tossed out for being drunk and loud. Eventually the remaining three of us decided we'd had enough with the utility problems and we all handed in our notice on the same day. Landlord got totally pissed that night. (And no, he didn't appear to be a drinker prior to that, so I don't think that's where the money was going.)

[Buzzard]

Spending the sales tax money, not paying all the other taxes... Is she even making proper payroll anymore? (and all the taxes/withholdings THERE as well)
It looks like someone else is going to own that restaurant in the not-so-far future, with Betty looking to spruce up her new digs at the Grey-Bar Hotel. (And/or having to sell house to make the tax-men happy)
But in the mean time, she's having a good time, right? That's the important part. (Where's that head-desk emote when you need it?)

[Ghel]

Events this week had me digging through Betty's loan file. I found out that she originally bought the restaurant in 1992. By 1996, she was already having trouble paying the loan. Loan officers at the time were trying to have an intervention for her to find some way to keep her business afloat. Apparently, that lesson never sank in.

This week, the bank decided we were going to put some pressure on Betty to get her real estate taxes paid (over $6000 for 2016 and 2017). I sent her a preforeclosure letter saying she needed to make arrangements with the county. We even offered to do a 2nd mortgage against her house (but not the restaurant - there's no value there).

Coincidentally, Betty called me the same day with an odd request. She said the state wanted a denial letter from the bank saying that we wouldn't lend her $38,000 to pay her past due sales tax. (Wait, what? ) She hadn't applied for a loan, so we couldn't do this letter for her.

Following this, there was quite a bit of back-and-forth between me, Goodhair, the Old Branch Manager, the New Branch Manger, and the Senior Loan Officer. At first, we were going to offer to do a 2nd mortgage on Betty's house, but only if we paid property taxes and any federal or state taxes she's behind on. So I asked her to make an appointment with us when she and her husband could come in and discuss it together. Betty said she'd talk to her husband and get back to us.

Meanwhile, I looked up the tax value of the house and what tax liens Betty has out. I found over $80,000 in federal and state tax liens going back to 2005. Although there's enough equity in the house to support a loan of that size, we're no longer sure we want to do that. Between the SBA guarantee on the restaurant loan and the low balance on the home loan, the bank's liability is only about $25,000. It doesn't make much sense to lend additional money to someone who can't show that they have any income. Throwing good money after bad, as they say.

We're going to go over all this again Monday and see what we can come up with. Betty and her husband haven't come in yet, but that's probably just as well.

[Ghel]

She used to be a gambler, but if she's been giving money to the casino, she's either used her account at the credit union, or cash. But more than that, I think she's just not good at handling her business' finances. She still hasn't provided the tax returns we requested, and the last info I got from her accountant is that he's still working on the 2012 tax return, but can't complete it because Betty's husband needs to provide additional documentation. And he can't do the more recent years' taxes until he gets the 2012 completed.

[Tama]

This puzzles me. She has lots of business you say...wtf is she spending all her money on?

[Ghel]

This is county property taxes that Betty's behind on. Our county gives owners of commercial properties five years of late taxes before they take the property (forfeiture). She's behind almost $6000 for the past two years.

Betty's also got automatic payments going to the state and the IRS for (I think) payroll and income taxes. Those payments sometimes bounce. I'm surprised that hasn't bit her yet.

[Tanasi]

Here if you get a few quarters behind on your PR and sales taxes the man shows up with a padlock in his hand and you better have his money. City and county property taxes can go a few years before someone (a competitor) complains to the local paper and then everyone who is late name gets put in the paper. After three years of non-payment the county will sell it.

[Pixelated]

*snip*
She didn't even seem worried about it. I just don't get it.

I would guess she's not worried because this has gone on for so long that it's long since become her "new normal." The only thing that might worry her is if/when somebody actually shows up with some legal papers to tell her her proper is now forfeit and thus no longer hers.

[Ghel]

Minor update. I called all my customers who hadn't paid their real estate taxes - about 5 of them. Everyone besides Betty had a plan for how to pay theirs. Betty said she knew that the real estate taxes for the restaurant were past due, but she didn't have a plan for how to pay them. :sigh: I suggested she figure it out, since the property will go tax forfeit in two more years if she doesn't get them paid. And every month, the past due amount goes up with interest and fees, making it harder to catch up.

She didn't even seem worried about it. I just don't get it.

[wordgirl]

No updates. Betty continues to make her loan payments and fails to pay her real estate taxes. Give it a couple more years, then something of note might happen.

Given what you've said earlier about not wanting to foreclose, that might not be a good strategy for Betty ... then again, once the county starts making Serious Noises about seizing the property, she will probably scramble and pony up enough back taxes to soothe that particular beast. (One of the "benefits" of not paying your taxes is that they tend to give you plenty of warning before they take something.... and at least around these parts, all communication is shared with any lienholders so Ghel's bank should be kept up to date on whether there's a real danger of forfeiture.)

[Ghel]

No updates. Betty continues to make her loan payments and fails to pay her real estate taxes. Give it a couple more years, then something of note might happen.

[apocolypse101]

Any updates yet? Has Betty finally gotten the liens off her credit yet?

[Ironclad Alibi]

That's Ringling Bros. level juggling right there...

And you know what's happening to them. Betty can't be far behind.