So, I was assaulted on Sunday...

[ISellCars]

I've been reading this thread like, all day.


Mucho congrats Kusanagi on your victory. The a-hole deserved everything he got. Shows what happens to the bullies in high school when they can't pick on kids any more.

[Antisocial_Worker]

Have to chime in with the others. I've been following this, as has everyone else, from the beginning, and I'm thrilled things worked out in your favor. You go!

[skeptic53]

What a great ending... I was fearing he would get a suspended sentence or community service or some such B.S.

Too bad you can't have a little webcam in his cell, to see what happens over the next 15 years. It is to be hoped he will at least gain some common sense and a cooler head.

I mean seriously, to escalate an argument over the price of a couch into 15 years of hard time takes some severe lack of judgement.

But... you couldn't get time off to testify? What's up with that??? I hope they give you time off to celebrate in some way!!

[Rapscallion]

Got a question for anyone who's been through the US legal system, or knows something about it.

I've never heard of this police officer reading out a witness statement in court thing before. The US system is based pretty much on the UK system, and over here it's a fundamental right for the accused to face his or her accuser in court - well, unless they're dead or similar. Has the system changed so much since it went across to the US?

Kus, you're the main witness in a case wherein you were physically assaulted. GS (rather, his lawyer) was apparently given no chance to cross-examine you, which would be required to have a fair trial over here. A police officer would reading out the statement could no answer for the witness in such an instance. Considering that someone was running the risk of being put away for a fifth of their expected lifespan, I'd have considered that cross-examination to be pretty important.

Anyone got any idea about the US system and if this is common practice - or even admissable? I got to about four pages of Google results and couldn't see it, though the search criteria may not have been specific enough.

Anyone?

Rapscallion

[Ree]

Interesting point, Raps.

I would be afraid that the lack of cross examination of an accuser could be grounds for an appeal, actually. I admit I know nothing of the US law, let alone the law in my own country.

Something else on this line that concerns me as well.

Kusanagi, you mentioned in the recap of the civil trial that his lawyer had not filed for discovery, so did not know about the knife or blood tests or fingerprints. I find that extremely incompetent, since he was also scheduled to appear on criminal charges where those things were a factor in evidence.
Was this lawyer representing him at both trials, I wonder? If so, under California's reciprocal discovery rules, I would be really afraid that the lack of motion for discovery would be definite grounds for appeal. I am very afraid this is not over yet if this dude gets a hold of any law book in the prison library, or starts getting 'jailhouse lawyer' advice .

[Spiffy McMoron]

Kusanagi, since a few members have discussed this for War Story status, I was hoping if you could clarify a few things.

As Raps mentioned, we have already received mail about the "Vinegar Boy" story being crap, and accusations that Aaron made the whole thing up.
Apparently, the reader failed to notice that Aaron's story spanned a few months, and missing these crucial details made him think that the "Vinegar Boy Saga" was a load of bunk.

Therefore, it's important if we decide to post a War Story, that we make sure all of the facts are clear, so visitors to the site, or future new members can't dispute it. If you could clarify this, that would help everybody undersatnd the truth here, and give us a better mental image of exactly what's going on.

I go downstairs to help him, where our clearance center is.

There are a few things I need to mention, and this is the time to bring up the first one. The clearance center is very jammed with furniture and is hard to navigate. Secondly, it's in the far back, and the only exit is the loading door but that takes quite a process to open and is in no ways a quick exit.

I see stars, my vision swims, and I hear the woman scream.

He shouted a few obcenities, and ran towards the door screaming. The other customers were in complete shock as to what just happened, as was I, and I remember chasing him towards the front of the store. The lady who screamed had a pad and paper as she was trying to get measurements from me, and I yelled "Get his liscence plate number! Get the number!" as she was near the door, and god help her, she wrote it down.

Alright-this is where I'm hoping you can help me to figure out:

You state that the clearance center is downstairs.
The altercation takes place, and the woman with the pad of paper witnesses it, so she must have also been downstairs in that area.
Then you state that he ran towards the front of the store to the door, which would indicate that the door is on the same level as the area where the incident took place, as you don't mention him running back upstairs.
Then you mention that the woman with the pen and paper was standing near the front door and got the license number.

My confusion is how the woman, screaming at witnessing the assault downstairs in the far back, then got upstairs so quickly, ahead of the dude who attacked you.
That would mean she was in a position that allowed her to witness both an assault that occurred downstairs in the far back, and yet, be with her pen and paper able to view the attacker's car and get a license number, while standing at the front door, which I am assuming is upstairs. Or, alternatively, The Flash's mother was out shopping for a couch that day.

Do you see how I'm all confuzzled? I realize that you typed this while your heart was still going a mile a minute, and you might have used an incorrect word. Is it possible for you to clear up this confusion? It would make the tale read so much smoother and better to read, since the reader wouldn't have to concern him/herself with such trival matters. Thanks.

[Dragon_Dreamer]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

As far as I know, it's not common, but it has happened, as long as his was only supporting evidence, and/or there was demonstrateable proof that he feared for his life. It happens most commonly in cases where children have to testify against parents.

I'm not a lawyer, though, I've just done a bit of research in the past on such things.

Again, good luck, and congrats on clearing this hurdle.

[Kusanagi]

[QUOTE=Spiffy McMoron;74825]

Okay, let me clarify as best I can.

Our showroom isn't really upstairs/downstairs in the strictest sense of the word - it's more of a split level with a small staircase between the two of them. (The building is built on uneven ground, hence the split-level.) Our showroom was a biker garage in a former life. The upper level was the showroom for the bikes and the lower area was the garage/shop.

The only entrance to the store (that is used) is in this upper level. People are able to go down to the lower level via half a dozen stairs.

The lower level itself is it's own showroom divided into two sections. The side facing the street and parking lot has plate glass windows. There IS a door here as well but it is locked 24/7 unless we have a furniture delivery coming in, then we sometimes open it. For all intents and purposes, this door does not exist for customers.

The back area facing the alley has a large metal overhead trucking door like they have in loading docks. It is in this area near the back where we keep our clearance product, since people who buy it can just take it out of the back loading door.

There's a sort of "hallway" of furniture separating the two areas that is very distinct, as we don't mix clearance product with normal product. The family and woman who screamed was in the lower level where myself and ghetto superstar were, but in the half of the showroom facing the street where we keep the NEW product that people have to order. Ghetto ran for the door he came in(he had to run up the stairs to the upper level, and trailed blood). However, his civic was in the parking lot, parked in front of our (non-used) door. This was the one the woman was near and was able to look out of and get the liscence number of his car, since it took Ghetto a few seconds to go back upstairs, out the front door, and circle around to the lot.

I hope that ended up clarifying it, I forget sometimes that not everyone is stuck in that showroom for 11 hour shifts

I am also not a lawyer, and the police officer did not take the stand persay as far as I know, but he presented the evidence to the court. I had talked with the DA (Remember, the state was suing him, NOT me) and explained that since I was unable to get the time of work since he had already filed a continuance and I feared he would do it again, I provided a written statement and all my copies of the the statements and paperwork (for example, the proof that he violated the restraining order since the paramedics picked him up in front of a store he shouldn't have been anywhere near) since the issue happened. From what I was told, the point was to help establish his violent nature and the DA would take care of the rest.

After the civil situation, all enthusiasm I had for this just vanished, honestly. Had I pushed this with my employer, I could have gotten the time off. But I was so fucking sick of the entire mess at that point I just talked with the DA and told him I wanted the situation to just GO AWAY. He understood and said it would be best if I did what I ended up doing, which was the written statement. They already had enough evidence to lock the guy away for quite some time on a ton of other charges (the assault and battery on his girlfriend for example), so ultimately, I don't even know if my statement was even admissable as evidence. I'll try to look into it to see but you all have to understand I have absolutely no desire to follow this anymore. I've lost half a year to the stress of this situation and while most of my posts about it have been lighthearted, this has been grinding away at me and I've been on edge ALOT more than I've been letting on, and for that, I apologize.

Officer P simply told me over the phone that he had been convicted of the three specific charges along with others and didn't say what the other ones were. I'm assuming that they involved me (the restraining order and deadly weapon) but with this guy, who knows? Maybe his girlfriend had a restraining order and the conviction came from him putting her in intensive care the second time.

Ghetto hired his own lawyer for the civil case and had a public defender for the criminal trial, I do know that much. Don't know how that worked out, but it did. I wonder if it is a case of the left hand not knowing what the right was doing?

He has the right to appeal and probably will if he finds a way, but the issue is with the state now, and not with me. I'm done with the issue, and I told everyone involved that. I'm moving early next month and really don't need the stress :-)

I know people have and will continue to call this story into question and there is nothing I can do to make it airtight or plug all the gaps because not even I know everything going on behind the scenes and I'm trying not to speculate on too much. Truth is stranger than fiction, it seems, and I have to admit, after experiencing this first hand, I find stories like Vinegar Boy to be far far more believable. :-)

[Jester]

I myself have questioned the veracity of some of the posts on CS.com, at least mentally, if not aloud. I like to think I can smell bullshit a mile away. Frankly, it has been my opinion all along that this your story exuded nothing but honesty and sincerity. And the fact that there ARE some holes in it tend to confirm that in my mind. A story this out there, if the author knew EVERYTHING about it, would seem fishy to me. The fact that you don't, and don't pretend to, and don't shy away from the fact that you don't, just adds up to me, having been in some odd situations myself.

I do not doubt that there will be people who will continue to question this story. That is their right, and it is my right to believe that they are in need of a broomstickectomy.

Kusanagi, the recent troubles I have had at work, soon to be chronicled here, pale in comparison with what you had to put up with through this, and I commend you for your ability to tell it in a lighthearted manner, and to get through it as well as you did. As many others have said,
CONGRATULATIONS!

And I hope you never have to deal with a sucky customer situation this bad again!

[marlovino]

Hey, if anyone still has doubts about the story can you give us the case number so we can look it up for ourselves? I am pretty sure court proceedings (unless requested) are public documents.

[Rapscallion]

I'd love to see a picture of the scar. You know we allow attachments these days?

Rapscallion

[Kusanagi]

I'll see if I can, I don't have a digital camera

[wagegoth]

Oh, Kus, I'm glad it's finally over. I'm glad you weren't called to testify; that's the nice part of having the state place the charges, not you.

My guess is that his civil lawyer took the case on a contingency, no money up front, hoping to score a few thousand for himself (figuring that if you couldn't afford an attorney it would be an easy win or quick settlement).

The public defender is not going to appeal the criminal case, not without incredibly good cause. It's also unlikely that any firm will take the case pro bono, since there is absolutely nothing sympathetic or questionable in GS's case.

Fifteen years. Wow! That's great.

Good luck on your move. Maybe you can take some vacation and just hang out on a beach or hide on a mountain somewhere for a week or two. You've more than earned it. I believe that GS might still be on the street if not for you, and I want to thank you for that, and I'm sure his (ex-)girlfriend does, too.

[HYHYBT]

I've never heard of this police officer reading out a witness statement in court thing before. The US system is based pretty much on the UK system, and over here it's a fundamental right for the accused to face his or her accuser in court - well, unless they're dead or similar. Has the system changed so much since it went across to the US?

If I understand correctly, criminal trials are always between the accused and the government, not an individual. Does seem like there's normally *some* form of cross-examination required, but it may be possible that that could be handled by paperwork especially if the defendant's lawyer is the idiot he sounded like, and some are.

There are jurisdictions where a case like this could take well over a year to go to trial. And, fortunately, some where it can be over in a few months, especially if no one is particularly trying to drag things out. The one case I got to sit on a jury for was drug dealing, not assault plus, and some details are fuzzy by now, but one thing I do remember is that the trial was *much* closer to the arrest than I'd expected. And that the whole thing was a waste since he changed his plea to guilty during deliberations....

[Gurndigarn]

And that the whole thing was a waste since he changed his plea to guilty during deliberations....

The only time I've pulled jury duty to date (over 40 now, registered voter my entire life-- how did I manage that record? And it was a stalking charge, for the record.), we showed up, watched the "how to be a juror" video, went in... and were told to go over to the next building, pick up our checks, and go home. The guy had changed his plea just before trial.

But the judge did remind everyone that the jury fees were being paid for by the defendant because he was too stupid to plea guilt before everyone showed up, so don't feel bad about picking up the checks. This judge has a reputation for being a bit of a hardnose towards criminals.