Estranged Spouses and their House

[Ghel]

I’m starting this off in Sucky Customers because although the customers here aren’t particularly sucky YET, I have a feeling this is going to turn into a similar thread to Brandy’s story, though through age and infirmity rather than drugs.

I have a pair of customers, let’s call them George and Jo, who have had their mortgage with us for at least 15 years. During that time, I took over managing the loan. I mostly dealt with Jo, since she was the primary financial person in the relationship. On the rare occasions I spoke with George, he told me to call Jo, who managed a local hotel. During that time, they were infrequently late on their payments, but it didn’t seem like anything to worry about. Just call up Jo and she’d make a payment within a few days.

A few years back, George and Jo had a falling out. Jo quit her job at the hotel (or retired, maybe) and moved out of the house. George set up automatic payments, and we were actually paid on time up until the present. George accused Jo of going “crazy” and other things. The main thing I remember was that she wasn’t taking his phone calls. I didn’t get involved. I didn’t really care as long as the mortgage was paid.

Today, George called to ask me to stop the automatic payments because he can no longer afford to pay them. In between telling me that he had a health condition that meant he was having a hard time keeping the house clean and that he was trying to get into assisted living by spring, he told me about his wife. She’d refused to sign divorce papers because she wanted everything. She has mental health problems and dementia. He had to change his cell phone number because she was using it for her schemes. She tried to turn all the funds in their joint account into bitcoin and send it to a guy in Texas. She’s living in a town 30 miles away, but she’s also stealing his WiFi, so maybe she’s living next door. Somehow.

I’m taking all that with more than a grain of salt. I told George I’d contact a supervisor and figure out what options we could offer him. He seemed fine with that.

I’m sure I’ll have more for this thread in the near future.

[RealUnimportant]

Oh yeah, this is looking promising. Warm up the popcorn popper!

[taxguykarl]

Thank for reminding me to pick up some more.

[Kristev]

What craziness is brewing here?

[Ghel]

Small update: after talking with BM and Ted, we decided to encourage George and Jo to sell the house. We don’t want to get involved in their personal affairs, but we do want the loan paid. Or better yet, paid off.

I attempted to call and email Jo, but the phone number was disconnected and the email bounced back undeliverable. My next attempt to contact her is a letter using an address I found online. I don’t know how accurate that address is, but it’s the only contact we have for Jo right now. At least it’s in the town where George says she lives.

I found Jo on social media, but I hesitate to contact her that way. The bank still doesn’t have social media accounts, and I don’t want to use my personal one. I might rethink that if she doesn’t respond to the letter. Meanwhile, her social media verified the town she lives in. It also seems to contradict George’s statement that she has dementia. She seemed perfectly happy out having drinks with friends.

[RealUnimportant]

His version of "dementia" might mean "has a mind of her own" rather than "lacks a mind"... Or indeed that he has it instead, based on some of his claims.

[Ghel]

You might be onto something, RealUnimportant.

Jo called me in response to my letter. So the address I found online was correct.

She told me that she left George about a year and a half ago because he was abusive. (Good for her for getting out of that situation.) George was right about one thing - Jo has mental health issues, but it’s PTSD from his abuse. She doesn’t want to have any contact with him.

Jo said the house was her family’s house, but she’s willing to let it go because she doesn’t have the financial or emotional capacity to do anything about it. She said she was willing to sign documents to either sell the house or turn it over to the bank, as long as she doesn’t have to come in at the same time as George.

BM and I are going to try to get hold of George and encourage him to sell the house. It would be in everyone’s best interest.

[Ghel]

BM and I called George this afternoon and it was unhinged.

He accused Jo of having multiple personalities. “It depends which Jo you talk to. Is it the good Jo or the evil Jo?” He said she refused to get her drivers license renewed for 2 years. Which apparently lead directly to her crashing into the back of another car. Which was bad, but then he said he drove his car into a ditch, which wasn’t bad, or something. I guess he was trying to explain why he didn’t have a car.

Jo left nearly everything behind when she left. She told him he could have it. But it’s all junk, he says. He can barely make it to the curb, much less clean out the house, because he has a medical condition. He named it, but I won’t here. He went on a short rant about how he got it, which sounded very conspiracy theory related, but I don’t know anything about it, so I probably shouldn’t judge. It was just that, on top of everything else, it made him sound even more unhinged.

Eventually, we convinced him that selling the house would be in his best interest. Even if he has to hire someone to clean out the house, he should get enough from the sale for a car or moving expenses. We offered to have a realtor call him to get things started. He said that was fine. He’ll answer calls from numbers he doesn’t recognize so he doesn’t miss the realtor’s call.

[taxguykarl]

He can barely make it to the curb, much less clean out the house, because he has a medical condition. He named it, but I won’t here. He went on a short rant about how he got it, which sounded very conspiracy theory related, but I don’t know anything about it, so I probably shouldn’t judge.

Try not to sound too sarcastic about the physical inability to empty a hoarder's place, Ghel.
When I emptied my MIL's (see also https://www.customerssuck.com/board/...ack-up-for-air) I sported rashes (yes including on the face--even with a covid mask) for that summer and fall. On days when I wasn't chipping at that house, I barely had the energy to move around--most likely recovering from the crap I got exposed to the day before. I would alternate between slathering my face with cortisone cream and antibiotic cream (from scratching) at bedtime. That ended a couple of weeks after the house got sold. True that emptying a hoarder's house is easier if said hoarder is not breathing down your neck.

We offered to have a realtor call him to get things started. He said that was fine. He’ll answer calls from numbers he doesn’t recognize so he doesn’t miss the realtor’s call.

Good call for all concerned. Most realtors have contacts with the right people to spruce up a house to get top dollar. If the market in 10k Lakes is anything like here in Chicagoland, your estimate about coming our ahead is likely accurate.

[Ghel]

House prices in my area tend to be lower than in other parts of the US. Good if you’re buying, not so good if you’re selling. Still, they should be able to get around $30k each from the sale of the house, depending on how much the cleaning costs. There’s also a possibility, as BM was suggesting, that someone might want to buy the house as-is and clean it out themselves. George and Jo might not get as much in that case, but at least they’d be done with it.

I’m hoping the realtor will be able to recommend a service to declutter and clean the house. It does seem like the sort of service they’d work with.

BM found a brochure from the state with information on how to access disability resources, so he mailed that to George.

I’ll update this if there’s any news.

[taxguykarl]

There’s also a possibility, as BM was suggesting, that someone might want to buy the house as-is and clean it out themselves. George and Jo might not get as much in that case, but at least they’d be done with it.

In my post, MIL's house was sold to a flipper. True we got less than FIL&MIL paid, but we spared the costs of repairs and upgrades.

I’m hoping the realtor will be able to recommend a service to declutter and clean the house. It does seem like the sort of service they’d work with.

Be surprised, be very surprised, if the realtor does not know of any such services.

[Ghel]

We’ve had some progress, hopefully, for George.

He called yesterday, primarily to complain about his wife. I let him ramble a bit so I’d have fodder for this post, but when he started to repeat himself, I cut him off. He called Jo “crazy” again and asked if she’d seemed crazy when I talked to her. I said she seemed normal. He said there’s 2 different Jos. I must have talked to the good one.

Jo contacted him, though it wasn’t clear whether she called or wrote. He said he got a note from her. She’s walking away from the house. He tried to say that contradicted what she told me, but I said no, Jo told me she’d be willing to sign whatever is needed to sell the house or turn it over to the bank. Which is the same thing as walking away, in my book.

He said the thing about her walking away as an accusation, but immediately followed it with a reminder that he can’t afford to make payments, either. But he’s not walking away. He’s expecting to live in the house rent free until he finds somewhere else to live.

He told her that her cancer is back because she’s lost weight. Based on a picture on social media. But she doesn’t believe him. Also she blames him for everything that’s gone wrong in her life.

Anyway, the realtor? Yeah, they’re coming over this afternoon. The house isn’t ready, though. He hasn’t been upstairs in nearly 20 years because he can’t do stairs. So he has no idea what’s up there.

He started rambling about how hard he worked when he was able to, and he doesn’t want the county to take all that money. Or be in charge of his money. Or something. I kind of zoned out for a minute. Also details about the car accidents that he was in that I don’t really care about. Maybe it seems callous, but this guy is the very definition of “unreliable narrator.”

The realtor talked with BM after her visit. BM asked if she took pictures. She said she didn’t think of it until after she left.

The realtor said the first floor, the part George is living in, is relatively well kept up. But the upstairs and basement are full of garbage, with a thick layer of dust. She said it would take a large dumpster to clean out the house, and they probably wouldn’t get the sale price they were hoping for. BM explained the bank’s position, which is basically that we need to be paid the balance of the mortgage. Anything above that, that’s money in George and Jo’s pockets. So if George is willing to sell the house for less to someone who’s willing to buy it as-is and clean it out themselves, we’re fine with that.

The realtor said she’ll keep us updated.

[Ghel]

George called all upset today because the realtor told him he’ll have to split the sales proceeds with Jo. “She hasn’t lived here for a year and a half! She left me to pay the mortgage by myself! I’m disabled! She was paying 1/3 of the bills! I had to skip meals to pay the mortgage!”

I'm taking all that with a huge grain of salt. We explained to him that in Minnesota, spouses automatically have an ownership interest in each other’s real estate. BM asked him whose house it was originally, knowing full well it was Jo’s house before they got married. “It was her father’s.” In that case, it’s pre-marital property. If she wanted to push things, she could ask for 100% of the sales proceeds, and you wouldn’t get anything. The way it looks now, you’ll each get about $25k after paying off the loan (which is the only part we actually care about). He seemed mollified once we explained that.

The upshot of all this is there’s an offer on the house. It’s a cash sale, so it should go through pretty quickly. Then we won’t have to deal with George again.

[Kristev]

I wonder if he'll try to stiff Jo.

[Ironclad Alibi]

I wonder if he'll try to stiff Jo.

I doubt it, since he will never get his hands on her part of the money from the sale.