Free Speech

[Der Cute]

Yes: the major dictionaries (Oxford - UK, and Webster - USA) cover spelling and definitions.
Roget's Thesaurus covers synonyms and antonyms (and Oxford, Webster and others also have produced thesauruses).
In the USA, the Chicago Manual of Style is the canonical grammar book. It's the one I had to use for the grammar and syntax for my published books, since they were for a US publisher.

Australia, btw, uses the Macquarie dictionary and thesaurus. When I was a child (before this came out), we used Oxford spellings (which is why I -our and -ize). Now, our official spellings are the UK/Oxford -our but US/Webster -ise.


Uh. Once again I'm on a thread derail.

Yes, those children/students are completely misunderstanding freedom of speech. Would it be worth putting up the full text of the first amendment in your classroom and spending one session covering what it does and doesn't mean?

Sorry, I meant something like this: It's great you know what free speech is. But if you don't follow the rules of WRITING you free speech will be ignored. Yep, you're allowed talk about aliens eating sunflower seeds and spitting out large buildings. You're allowed to say mean things about people, groups, ethnicity. But to be HEARD, you have to WRITE it correctly.
This is a technical issue, kids.

[downforit2008]

Do these students even know what "right to free speech" means??? Maybe they need to be told that their right to free speech these days doesn't give them the right to shout "Bomb!" in an airport, and then be shrieking about their right to free speech as they're arrested by airport police. People who would rub that amendment in other's faces over something so little could be doing something like that at an airport.

[bainsidhe]

Dear Student: This is a writing class. I grade you on your writing, and if you didn't notice, spelling and grammar play a part. If you don't want me grading you properly, why are you even here?

Dear Student: Choosing to take a failing grade because you couldn't follow simple instructions is also your right.

[Seshat]

Yes: the major dictionaries (Oxford - UK, and Webster - USA) cover spelling and definitions.
Roget's Thesaurus covers synonyms and antonyms (and Oxford, Webster and others also have produced thesauruses).
In the USA, the Chicago Manual of Style is the canonical grammar book. It's the one I had to use for the grammar and syntax for my published books, since they were for a US publisher.

Australia, btw, uses the Macquarie dictionary and thesaurus. When I was a child (before this came out), we used Oxford spellings (which is why I -our and -ize). Now, our official spellings are the UK/Oxford -our but US/Webster -ise.


Uh. Once again I'm on a thread derail.

Yes, those children/students are completely misunderstanding freedom of speech. Would it be worth putting up the full text of the first amendment in your classroom and spending one session covering what it does and doesn't mean?

[Der Cute]

Perhaps you should point out to your students that while they consider using improper grammar and spelling, as well choosing certain essay topics, to be within their First Amendment Rights, nowhere in the First Amendment does it guarantee them a good grade for such efforts. To get a good grade, they must follow the guidelines established by the teacher for their essays.

Remind them that there IS a written agreed upon standard of spelling, grammar and language. The Oxford Dictionary. Isn't there another technical book on grammar and sentence structure? The AMA (?) notation setting for writing factual papers. The lack of spelling and grammar would have negative consequences in real life. (spelling sucks, you're not going to be a newspaper editor. You can't do research and prove yourself? You're not going to be taken seriously.)

It's great to be creative. It's great to try to reach out to new ideas, students. Unless your spelling is consistent and creates a new language (think Klingon), you are breaking the rules of WRITING.

[Ironclad Alibi]

You see, several essay topics are banned in my class.

That reminded me of a humanities course I took back in college (FSU) in the late 60s. We had to write a paper, but she had a short list of topics that were unacceptable, one of them being country music. I asked her why, and she responded that it was too regionalized. (And this from someone in the deep south?)

A couple of years later I saw a TV special on country music that explained how country music was a multi-billion dollar international business. I have always wished I could have seen that show before being assigned to write that essay, and shown her just how regionalized country music was.

[Can I Help Your A$$?]

I smell a learning opportunity.

[Ironclad Alibi]

My students, though, have decided that everything I do that they don't like violates their free speech.

1. A student said I didn't respect their free speech for taking off points on a paper for spelling and grammar.

2. Several other students have complained that I'm violating their free speech by not allowing them to write about certain topics for their research essays.

Perhaps you should point out to your students that while they consider using improper grammar and spelling, as well choosing certain essay topics, to be within their First Amendment Rights, nowhere in the First Amendment does it guarantee them a good grade for such efforts. To get a good grade, they must follow the guidelines established by the teacher for their essays.

If they disagree, suggest they exercise their rights under the final clause of the First Amendment, "and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[Soulstealer]

Wait, what IS the definition of Freedom FROM Speech? Cos I know the other...

Well as far as I know there isn't such a law officially except in the classical case of not shouting fire in a crowded theatre. But it would mean that you wouldn't be subjected to some sort of speech from other people. Mind you if it's a constitutional right it would only restrict the government from certain types of speech and not individuals.

[kibbles]

I agree..you're not stopping them. They can write about what they want..they just won't get the mark for writing about the wrong thing. If they are so concerned about the free speech being infringed upon..wouldn't one assume that the mark isn't important to them but about protecting their free speech?

I doubt they would have a response to that.

[veniteangeli]

I'm always amazed at the number of people who lack the ability to discern between Freedom OF Speech vs. Freedom FROM Speech

Wait, what IS the definition of Freedom FROM Speech? Cos I know the other...

[Argabarga]

I'm always amazed at the number of people who lack the ability to discern between Freedom OF Speech vs. Freedom FROM Speech

I don't get accused of that very often, most of my complaints come from a misunderstanding about the legal requirements for an act to be declared "Theft" , usually along the lines of "auto theft" for obvious reasons.

[Moosenogger]

I wonder how many blank stares you'd receive if you flat out asked your students, "Am I a government body? Do I work for the government? Am I a government employee, either for the state government or the federal government? No? Then I can't legally infringe upon your first amendment rights. It doesn't work that way. Now, write your damn papers."

Some college students are idiots, and I fear for their children.

[veniteangeli]

QFT! Well put, veniteangeli.

*takes a bow* Thank you, thank you. I've been in this argument before, and I will freely admit that I stole that little gem from someone else haha. IIRC the context went something like this:

"I can call you an asshole if I like! I have First Amendment rights! You can't deny me my freedom of speech!"

"I hear what you're saying, and you're right... you do have the right to freedom of speech... but not from the natural consequences of abusing that right in order to be a jackass. So, to that end, here is my rebuttal." *swift kick to the cherries*

[Jay 2K Winger]

Tell your students that they ABSOLUTELY have a right to free speech - but that the right to freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of said free speech.

QFT! Well put, veniteangeli.