Free Speech

[lordlundar]

Love it.

We don't hear that argument up here in the Frozen North but only because we don't have the shortcut of "It's against the XXth Amendment!!" because we don't have amendments -- and I doubt that more than five percent (maximum) of students have a clue what is or is not legal under Canadian constitutional law. Which is, perhaps, lucky.

Oh I hear it a fair amount. Usually the "You're violating my First Amendment Rights" or "I plead the Fifth."

The response is always the same:

We're Canadians, we don't have Amendments.

[EricKei]

In the US at least "State University" generally designates one which is owned by the State it's in, and (usually) receives funding from state-level sources as a result. NOT Federal funding afaik, at least not on a regular basis, aside perhaps from those (presumably) given to most or all schools from the DoE.

[Moosenogger]

Well said.

Only problem is, some teachers do work for the government. My wife is a teacher in the public school system. Her employer is the Board Department of Education, and thus she is, in fact, a government employee. I don't think any rules she promulgates in the classroom can be considered actions of the government as a whole, though, so she's probably not bound by the First Amendment per se.

True, public school teachers could be considered government employees. In that case, here's an example of how to address the problem:

"Fine. Write your paper about whatever you like. You have every right to do so. However, I have the right to give you a 0, because you chose an unapproved topic." It's like shouting "Fire!" in a movie theater or crowded area. You have the freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean you can say whatever you want whenever you want and be free from responsibility.

But suppose he's a professor of a state university, which IS owned by the government? Doesn't get quite so clear cut then, does it?

State University's are owned by the government? Or do they receive government funding? Those are two totally different things.

Tax money can go to a business, but that doesn't mean the business can't toss someone out on their ass for shouting obscenities at their customers and employees.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

Ah, fond memories of sucky students in my highschool classes. Okay, not very fond, but very amusing with the knowledge of 'I KNOW WHAT YOU DO NOW!'

Several students tried to pull that "free Speech" thing on our Honors (HONORS) US History Teacher. You should've seen the color his face turned (cross between a plum and a tomato.) He was also the football coach, and so those students got nerf balls chucked at them for the complaint.

Also, he did make them do a paper on the Bill of rights, specifically the First Amendment and they had to write ten pages on it. So that suggestion for your students is a really good one. At least if they are the type to learn through brute force, and aren't just brick walls.

Good Luck!

[bankworking]

Have to agree with others here: make free speech the next mandatory topic. The research would do them good.

[Titi]

I just finished going over the end of course survey results from an online course I recently finished teaching. These are RNs transitioning to a BSN.

One of them actually had the nerve to complain that I dinged her for spelling, grammar, and punctuation, because her friend who has a Master's in Literature looked over her work first.

Sorry, Chiquita. If she can't think to put your work through Spell Check and Grammar Check, that's not my problem.

She said she had to person take a look at it, not that she fixed any of the mistakes that were pointed out.

I used to grammar and spell check my mother's papers when she was getting her MBA because (even though to here her speak you wouldn't know it) English is not her first language (she's from Puerto Rico), so one time she suggested to one of friends to ask me to do the same for her. I am very picky and I warned the lady. Every single one of my suggestions was met with, "they won't care about that", "they won't mark off for that". In the end I gave up. The lady got mad at ME because all the things I told her about were marked off and she got a low grade.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Well, if your students want to exercise their "first amendment rights" to write scholarly essays in the same grammar and formatting as Twitter posts, then more power to them.

It just makes people like me look like super geniuses compared to them.

[Sapphire Silk]

I just finished going over the end of course survey results from an online course I recently finished teaching. These are RNs transitioning to a BSN.

One of them actually had the nerve to complain that I dinged her for spelling, grammar, and punctuation, because her friend who has a Master's in Literature looked over her work first.

Sorry, Chiquita. If she can't think to put your work through Spell Check and Grammar Check, that's not my problem.

[houdini]

As far as I know, there is no actual law stating that. That is merely an example used in a well-known Supreme Court case about freedom of speech, when it was made clear that freedom of speech is NOT absolute, and does not cover everything, such as the famous example you cited. Just saying.

I think there's some case law that backs it up over here (UK), but the law usually boils down to: "You are not immune from the consequences of your free speech."

Also, if the answer is 42, the questions is always, "How many pints of beer* do you want?"

*or donuts, Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters, or alcohol of choice.

[Jester]

I was a journalism and broadcasting major, have worked in radio, have been involved on several levels in politics, minored in political science, and am a history buff. And I have been, for my entire adult life, a First Amendment junkie and free speech absolutist. And, with those credentials, I say to the students in the original post:

"SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU WHINY LITTLE SHITS!"

Seriously? You are going to try to play the free speech card on YOUR GRADES? Or what you can or can't write about?

What these mental worms are forgetting about free speech is that everyone (in this country) has the right to free speech, but that right does not preclude consequences or repercussions for them exercising it. It DOES preclude the government from preventing them from expressing themselves, and it DOES preclude the government from punishing them for expressing themselves, but it in NO WAY precludes others from doing so.

For example, I have the legal right in this country to walk up to a complete stranger and call him a dumb fucking asshole. This right of mine in no way prevents him from punching me in the nose. He can get arrested for assault, certainly, but if I in any way attempt to bring a lawsuit against him for "violating my Constitutional rights," the case would get bounced out of court so fast it would make bystanders' heads spin. And if he doesn't punch me in the face, he certainly has the right to express HIS freedom of speech to tell me to go get the fuck out of his face before he DOES punch me in the nose.

With rights come responsibilities. We have an amazing right in this country to express ourselves. But we must remember that this right was one that our forefathers fought for, and to debase it and abuse it by screaming "Teacher won't let me write what I want to write about" is utterly ridiculous, and shows that these students know less about their Constitutional rights than a duck knows about engine repair.

Look, part of going to school is that you agree to abide by those school's educational rules, part of which goes something like this: teacher assigns assignments, student does assignments, teacher grades assignments. You don't like it? Go to another school, pick another major, or take an other class. But don't you DARE sit there and bray about "you're violating my freedom of speech," you clueless little toads. Because you basically have two choices:

1. Shut the fuck up and do the work.
2. Exercise your freedom of speech right to ignore your teacher and write about what you want to write about, (and/or in the grammatically incorrect way your lazy ass thinks is a perfectly fine way to write about it), and watch your teacher exercise THEIR freedom of speech rights by declaring your paper to be worthy of a Failing grade. As in F. No soup for you!

Teachers grade your work. That's their job. Until such time as they actually start preventing you from exercising your Constitutional rights (such as failing you because you're of a gender, sexual orientation, or race they don't approve of, or because they disagree with you politically, and you can prove the grade you received had nothing to do with the actual work you did), get off your delusional soap box and get back to doing your actual job as a college student: getting sloppy drunk at frat parties and throwing up in your dorm mate's shoes.

Well as far as I know there isn't such a law officially except in the classical case of not shouting fire in a crowded theatre.

As far as I know, there is no actual law stating that. That is merely an example used in a well-known Supreme Court case about freedom of speech, when it was made clear that freedom of speech is NOT absolute, and does not cover everything, such as the famous example you cited. Just saying.

[wolfie]

I posted on this guy a while back, but I was at a bus stop and this guy kept asking me intrusive questions. I answered them as vaguely as possible. He caught on and called me on it. I told him flat out that I don't want him asking me these questions. He played the Free Speech card. I told him, "I suppose you do. But I also have the right to not answer the questions."

or to ignore him completely

The guy at the bus stop obviously doesn't understand that Free Speech means that the GOVERNMENT can't keep him from speaking on any given topic, but it does not guarantee him an audience. Anybody within earshot has the right to ignore him.

As for one of the classic allowable restrictions on free speech, what about its corollary - is it an infringement on free speech to ban people from shouting "Movie!" in a crowded firehouse?

[42_42_42]

There's only one solution to this problem: When they pull the free speech card, ask them to do a research paper on the bill of rights.

This is a perfect solution, IMHO.

/So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[MergedLoki]

Yep the country has free speech, and your class is a dictatorship. All tremble before the might and glory of the red correction pen of Miss Fatale

[emt_cookies]

You see, several essay topics are banned in my class. There are reasons for this, such as these topics are so common that it's easy to cheat on accident (I do explain this to the students). More importantly, I've read enough papers about X, Y, or Z to last me a life time.

My favorite English teacher did that with common essay topics like abortion, gun control, homosexual marriage, etc. She did allow people to write on the topic if they could pitch it in a way that made it sound unique and interesting.

I loved the essay I ended up writing for her paper. It was over vaccinations and common misconceptions about them.

[PepperElf]

or to ignore him completely