Vista: And So It Begins

[Rapscallion]

One thing I do need to do is find out how to set specific programs so the security just lets them through to the Internet without asking every time. It's not really that annoying, certainly not as bad as that snootty Mac commercial would have you believe.

Best take I've seen on those commercials...
http://www.leasticoulddo.com/comic/20060815

Rapscallion

[LostMyMind]

It took a bit of noodling to get some of my games to work, but after figuring out how to set them up to run as XP SP2 and have them run as by administrator, things are working pretty well.

Isn't that turning off the "security" for that application?

One thing I do need to do is find out how to set specific programs so the security just lets them through to the Internet without asking every time.

I've had that feature since Win95. I still have that feature on my current computer. My firewall does that (I use a different one than what comes with the OS). If Microsoft had added a much better firewall with the SP2, there would be no need for Vista

I did get rid of the gadget bar on the desktop.

That is a theft from MacX

I like an uncluttered desktop, and keep my icons down to one column on the side.

strangely enough, me too. However my parents love to have all kinds of "shortcuts/alias" on the desktop.

Things definately work different here, and mostly behind the scenes.

That the biggest problem, because it works differently behind the scenes. There going to be problems down the road.

From Win3.0 to WinXP, the function hooks used were the same. Microsoft made a point to leave it in there so that older programs can run without major issues. Meanwhile newer ones stop using those hooks. This is why you can pull up most win3.0 programs and it will work on XP. Now that Vista is built from the ground up (if we to believe that), those old hooks aren't there anymore.

I understand why Microsoft is doing this. Not too many people at Microsoft now are from those days. And there are too many "programmers" coming out of school with no clue as to how it was done in those days. They have to build a new OS so they can build and improve it. I just wish they been honest with everyone and said "This is not Windows anymore."

[Geek King]

Well, I've finally gotten used to the Vista machine I just bought, and I can't say it's that terrible. My only real issue with it is the IE7, and that isn't really a problem with Vista itself. It took a bit of noodling to get some of my games to work, but after figuring out how to set them up to run as XP SP2 and have them run as by administrator, things are working pretty well.

One thing I do need to do is find out how to set specific programs so the security just lets them through to the Internet without asking every time. It's not really that annoying, certainly not as bad as that snootty Mac commercial would have you believe.

I did get rid of the gadget bar on the desktop. I like an uncluttered desktop, and keep my icons down to one column on the side.

Long story short: I don't think this will be another ME, and I don't think it is just a graphical upgrade. Things definately work different here, and mostly behind the scenes. It is a very different layout (and I don't agree with some of the placement, but I can move them around if needed), so will take some getting used to. I think that may be alot of people's main complaint. In the long run, I think this will be the working model for the next bit.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong*

* Internet cookies to those who get the reference.

[Dips]

Speaking of unusually long beta periods...

We've had Longhorn/Vista in house for years. We are under NDA and can't go into details, but there were some early features and proposed features that were giving our developers nightmares. I guess we weren't the only ones because they aren't in the final product.

We're kind of banking on our customer base's traditional frugality while the kinks get worked out of Vista.

Our main problem is going to be the customers who are forced to buy a new computer to replace their Win95 machine which finally went to computer heaven. They are going to call us expecting we can help them get the 1998 all-floppy-disk version of our software onto their Vista laptop (which won't have a floppy drive) without their having to spend any money buying an update. And their justification for that will be that they already spent a lot of money somewhere else replacing the computer, therefore we can't expect them to spend money with us replacing the software.

The fact that we wouldn't be there to help them at all if we don't make money never crosses their minds.

[Rapscallion]

I think Vista will be a great success once they take it out of beta.

Rapscallion

[MadMike]

My son was all excited about it, and last time we were at Circuit City, he was playing with it on one of the display machines, telling me it was "So cool!"

But the more we played around with it, the more we agreed that it was all eye candy and no substance, and that it certainly wasn't worth the outrageous cost of the software, or of the new hardware we'd most likely need.

In the end, we agreed it was "Another ME."

I'll hold onto XP for awhile longer, maybe even until the next Windows comes out. Unless the next one blows just as badly as this one.

[ArenaBoy]

My dad just got Vista and while he is not a OS X fan he agrees that it's a blatant rip-off and it's not as smooth as OS X. (Yes I'm a Mac geek also.) While my dad is a wizard at computers and can figure out problems without calling tech support, he says that those who aren't too good with computers are going to be frustrated.

As for it being a copy of Mac, I messed around with Vista and can say that it's clunky and until they smooth the bugs out there will be some very pissed off techs.

[BravoOrig]

Will Vista be the new Windows ME? I've only played around with a beta copy of Vista, so I'm waiting awhile to get my hands on the official release. Of course I never had much trouble with Windows ME, so I never formed the bad opinion of it that others have.

[SuperB]

I'll be shopping for a new laptop soon and am hoping I can still buy a new one with XP. I have a ton of graphic programs and 3D applications that I cannot afford to replace simply to appease a new os.

[Dips]

Erf....2001/2002 was around the time Mac stopped those games. Their backward compatibility between the differing versions of OS X has been rather good, likely due to the fact that they all run on top of BSD Unix. I have programs on my system that I got back during 10.1 that still run fine on 10.4.8

Good to know, but it's too late. OS X was the breaking point and the cost of developing for its successors is too high especially with no guarantees that Apple won't yank the rug out again. Sales of the Mac version were never that high to begin with, so throwing more resources at it is a waste of time and money from our perspective.

It's not a matter of bias; it's a matter of economics. We don't hate Macs or Mac users (unless they start obnoxiously proselytizing or acting like we're in some evil conspiracy with Bill Gates; even then I wouldn't say we hate them; it's more like a dull throbbing of annoyance), we just want to make enough money to stay in business. That means Windows, even if they messed up with Vista.

[Spankmonkey]

Vista is going to die a quick painful death.

Yeah, we just got a new vista machine here. It's retarded, it's like someone was looking over the Apple Guys shoulder while taking the test for their programming degree.

Vista is a huge turn away from Windows.. it's Windows, yet it isn't. Still the same crap underneath, just with more added pictures and confusing menus. Hey let's change all the system control panels just to mess with people. What a retarded move.

the Gadgets bar, a very lame implementation, the widgets are often bulky and they're always on your screen and you have to go through so any things to get them back up of you click them off. The Mac you just click on Dashboard and there are your widgets.

As you can tell I'm more of a Mac guy, I do work on both computers at my job. And supporting the Mac is a dream in comparison to a windows machine. Normally everything works right away on the Mac, no playing with driver versions like the windows side.. True device plug and play on the mac, compared to Plug and Play around with it until you suffer from patchy baldness because you tore the hair from your scalp.

Windows from what I have experienced is kind of like a deck of cards, if all the parts are compatible, and you have all the drivers and everything you need it has a tendency to be relatively stable. But that can all of a sudden change and bring the whole system down.

I prefer Linux or Mac definitely, Windows is like the Relative you have to invite to family gatherings because the rest of your family would make you feel guilty if you didn't. Windows is like the kid that sits on the stool in the class room with the cone shaped hat on his head.

[trunks2k]

Just a note:

Cyberpower (www.cyberpower.com) lets you pretty much build your computer online, and you can still order it with XP

Suuurree. Just take away all the fun of putting together an expensive piece of electronics when you have no idea what you are doing

[Geek King]

Just a note:

Cyberpower (www.cyberpowerpc.com) lets you pretty much build your computer online, and you can still order it with XP, with a free Vista upgrade. They also take care of any issues in a timely manner (I had a motherboard go bad shortly after recieving my first compy from them, not thier fault, it happens sometimes). I've bought my last two gaming machines from them.

EDIT: Oops, had the wrong URL there, I have it fixed now. Sorry to anyone who went to the chat area I had accidentally listed!

[trunks2k]

I have a question. Now I do understand computers, to a point. I'm not technically savvay, even though my hubby thinks so. I am going to buy a computer (hopefully), would it be better to get XP or windows.

XP is a version windows

I am having a hard time finding XP anymore as everything is now Vista.

Yep, all the major computer makers are distributing their computers with Vista installed. I don't know if anyone is selling them with XP anymore.

I was XP that is upgradeable to Vista. I don't know the first thing about building my own computer and will have to go with something already put together at the store.

Local shops, rather than the big chain stores, would probably put one together for you.

I want AMD, but I heard that Intel is coming out with better chips. This computer will do everything, burn CD's/DVD's, run company software, play games, word processing, cook dinner, money management, internet, handle my printer, Adobe, and a slew of other things.

Meh, your CPU won't really matter if it's AMD or Intel, at least with the modern ones there's not too much of a difference, at least if you aren't doing hardcore gaming.

I am looking for a 350gb hard drive and a 2gb memory that is expandable to 4gb. I know what I want but I don't know much more than that.

Most motherboards come with four slots for RAM, which would give you up to 4GB And as a side note, be careful with your capitalization. In computer terms "b" means bit, while "B" means byte, which is 8 bits. Doesn't really matter in this case, but some people get themselves confused over that when it comes to certain things.

I just wat to make the best decision since this will cost me between 15 and $2000.00. The one that I have currently is almost 6 years old and still running strong, and this new one will, hopefully, last as long.

*smirks* $2000 is waaaaaaaay more than enough money if you aren't buying a monitor. Really, you can easily put together a high-mid performance system on your own for under $1000. Check local dealers and see if they can help you buy parts or put the parts together for you if you aren't comfortable doing it on your own. But really, modern computers are simple to put together. It's very much "put the thing with three pins on the thing that also has three pins". The only annoying part can be connecting the power and reset switch for the case to the motherboard.

If you want to be adventurous and buy all your own parts and have someone put it together for you or even do it yourself, here's the basic steps t buying stuff:

1. Figure out what CPU you want. If you decide you want an AMD chip, I suggest getting an AMD X2 flavor. Each CPU has a "socket" type that tells you what type of motherboard it will fit. For AMD chips, I suggest being sure the chip is an AM2 socket type, since that's what all the new AMD chips are designed to fit, so it will make future upgrades/replacments easier. I don't know anything about pentium chips so I can't give advice on those.

2. Finding a motherboard
--- a.) Get a motherboard that has a PCI express 16x slot. Most modern motherboards have this. It's the replacement for the AGP slot. Your video card is going to fit into this slot and few modern/good video cards use AGP anymore.
--- b.) Look at the RAM it is compatible with. DDR2 is the most common RAM type now-adays, so you should get one that supports it.
--- c.) Get one that supports SATA 3.0Gb/s (SATA II ?) connections, as the modern hard drives are moving away from IDE and towards SATA. IDE is the type with those big, thick ribbons. SATA 3.0 Gb/s connections looks a bit more like a USB connection (small rectangularish connections about inch by a half inch).
--- d.) Get something that is SLI compatible (or the analogous thing for non-Nvidia stuff, I forgot what it's called). You may not want or need it now, but you might in the future.

3. Find a video card. Hopefully you chose a motherboard with a PCI express slot. Most modern video cards use this type of slot. Get a card with no less than 128MB memory, prefferably 512, but 256 is just fine. Other than that, check various reviews. You shouldn't need to pay any more than $150 for a video card.

4. Find your ram. Make sure the RAM type is compatible with the motherboard. Most of the time the motherboard specs will list exactly what type of RAM it supports so it should be pretty self-apparant. Get RAM in matching pairs. i.e. If you are going to get 1 Gig of RAM, get two 512MB RAM chips rather than a single 1 gig RAM chip. This is so you can utilize dual channel RAM, which is much better performance.

5. Find your hard drive. Should be SATA compatible, as many modern drives are. Don't just look at size, look also at things like cache size and average seek times. The larger the cache the better, the lower the seek time the better. If you want to go all out and try for a RAID setup of some sort, you want to buy two of the same drives.

6. Find your media devices. DVD Burners are under $50 nowadays. These are pretty simple to get, they all tend to use the same connection type (IDE), so there's only quality and price to consider rather than compatibility.

7. Find a case and power supply. You can cheap out on a case, but sometimes a cheap case can cause problems. Look at reviews and see how well things like airflow are in it, and how sturdy it is. Power supply is something you don't want to cheap out on. Look for something that is at least 400 watts and make sure the number of pins for the part that connects to the motherboard is the same as the number of pins that is on the motherboard. Occasionally they don't match up and you have to spend a couple dollars to buy a connector that converts between the two.

oh yeah, you'll probably need to buy a floopy drive as well just in case, but thoe only cost like $10. Those are all standard stuff so there's no need to worry about compatibility.

If you decide to buy all your own parts, use newegg.com

[Banrion]

You can still buy Windows XP OEM from Newegg for $85.00, so if you find something you like that comes with Vista, you can always wipe it and install XP for not a whole lot more.