Vista: And So It Begins

[Crosshair]

I think the main issue here is people are trying to install software and/or drivers that are old and will not work and then they are blaming it on the O/S. Example: "my version 2000 of X software won't work! Whaah!" and then comes the "Now I have to buy new software and actually have to open my wallet whaah!"

No, Vista has problems more basic than that.

1. Obscene hardware requirements: The whole point of an operating system is to be functional while consuming as FEW resources as possible. Even relativly new computers won't run Vista well.

2. Breaks stuff it shouldn't: Microsoft really did a half-assed job at making Vista backwards compatable with even Windows XP. Seriously, either make it 99.99% backwards compatable or don't bother. Don't screw with us saying it is backwards compatable when it breaks anything more complex than a Powerpoint. "Hmmm, it breaks things I have paid for and use, why should I upgrade again."

3. Security through obscurity: Moving things around and making things hard to find do not make a computer more secure or harder for a user to screw it up. The new security methods used are not well implimented and not an improvement.

4. Tries to do too much at once: Get all this crap off of the screen.

5. Has not addressed fundimental problems with Windows. The registry system was a mess when it was introduced and has not improved. Letting user data be stored among program files makes backups difficult and the system easily becomes cluttered.

6. Useless DRM.

The only way Microsoft can get new sales is to plan obsolescence into XP (No DX10 support that I am aware of) and forcing all new computers to come with Vista installed instead of giving consumers a choice.

[sld72382]

I like Vista, it loads from boot to desktop is less than 40 seconds (then again I have RAID 0 and 2GB of memory).

I think the main issue here is people are trying to install software and/or drivers that are old and will not work and then they are blaming it on the O/S. Example: "my version 2000 of X software won't work! Whaah!" and then comes the "Now I have to buy new software and actually have to open my wallet whaah!"

[Rapscallion]

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070331 is pretty much spot on from my experiences.

Rapscallion

[skeptic53]

You are comparing apples to oranges. Roads haven't changed.

You can use a rotary phone to call individuals, but you're screwed if you're calling someone who uses any automated functions.

Of course its somewhat apples & oranges, which is why I said it was a valid criticism up to a point. And, last time I checked, Rte 66 is mostly gone and replaced by I-10.

Older technology will always have limits in the modern world, the old Sylvania console isn't gonna produce HD images. But you can still watch network TV. Most, but not all, automated systems have an option to stay on the line to talk to somebody, so there are limits.

But if you cannot see a website AT ALL because you have to have Vista & IE-7 (and only IE-7) that bugs me. Particularly if it is a public website such as local property tax records etc that doesn't have to be graphics-intensive. I'm making up this particular example but it is based on an actual occurrence in 1999, the local county database demanded as a minimum the latest browser and a fast modem connection. If your computer was more than one year old you were screwed. Back then I didn't feel the need to be able to see the county logo in animated full color in order to be able to access public records. The library did the same thing in early 1999. Wanna put a book on hold? Better have Win98 or better with the latest IE version and a fast modem, or ride your horse and buggy down to the library and do it in person.

[technical.angel]

Several posters have decried about people being upset that older software won't run on newer OS's, which a valid criticism up to a point. On the other hand, they let 1957 Chevy's on the freeway. You can still use a dial phone, a TV with rabbit ears, a transistor radio.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Roads haven't changed.

You can use a rotary phone to call individuals, but you're screwed if you're calling someone who uses any automated functions.

[skeptic53]

I am one of the legions waiting for SP2 before buying a box with Vista. I've been pretty happy with XP Pro, it was much better than Win98.

I probably would be a Mac person except that work uses PC's, and the portability/connectivity/familiarity with using the software was an issue for a long time.

On the other hand, we got my father an iMac in 2001 when OS-X first debuted. We did so because he is in his 80's and not all that computer savvy, although he's pretty good for a guy his age. We chose the Mac because of the jungle drums that have been pounding forever about its ease of use, intuitiveness, stability, reverses the aging process, cures cancer, you'll get the hot chicks, etc etc. Also we wanted to avoid the problems with the debut of XP that are now being mimicked by the onslaught of Vista.

I went with him to a local Mac user group for quite awhile. I must say I was very, very unimpressed. Neither my dad nor I found OS-X at all intuitive. Like XP it was a huge change from prior Mac OS's, and a lot of the Mac-savvy gurus at the user group were having problems getting it to work, getting peripherals to work, connecting to internet, to networks. It was all very PC-like. Then Apple started releasing an upgrade to the OS it seemed like every few months, and charging for each upgrade (no free SP2 download). They're about to go to v. 10.5 (leopard, rrrawrr) and I guess most of the bugs have been worked out. My dad still has occasional problems with his computer but much less than with OS 10.0

Linux is tempting but I have a strong feeling it involves way more tinkering than I have time or knowledge for.

Several posters have decried about people being upset that older software won't run on newer OS's, which a valid criticism up to a point. On the other hand, they let 1957 Chevy's on the freeway. You can still use a dial phone, a TV with rabbit ears, a transistor radio.

My biggest pet peeve is the assumption by developers, especially web developers, that EVERYONE can afford the latest giant-size hard drive, tons of RAM, is running the latest version of any browser, and does not mind having the rug pulled out from under them every year or two years in terms of where things are, what they are called, how to navigate, etc etc.

Between Microsoft & Comcast it often feels like Don Quixote tilting at windmills

[XXDarrienX]

I am aware of the issue with Vista except despite working in IT and working on computers for around six years my g/f is looking at a pc she says is a good computer. Guess what? Its got Vista on it and not only Vista but a wapping 512mb of RAM. She gives me this look when I tell her that your going to run Vista and thats it and ofcourse calls me an idiot. I tell her shes going to have to upgrade it out of the box to be able to do anything with it and she says that I am also buying a computer I will have to upgrade out of the box. Unlike her little 500 buck pc my system is a dual core AMD custom built gaming system. I wasn't aware that my computer sucked. >_>

[rvdammit]

Theres a warranty strip helping to keep the case closed...

Rapscallion

I would say it's FUBARED then.

[Rapscallion]

Hmm - after paying for a network cable, the wireless network works fine, as long as there's a cable involved to pass the data through. Yay!

From what I can see, though, the trick with installing Vista is to let it fuck one thing up at once. Maybe it's because there's an ACER background proggie running, but this seems flakier than me after ten minutes in direct sunlight.

Rapscallion

[Rapscallion]

Theres a warranty strip helping to keep the case closed...

Rapscallion

[rvdammit]

Mmm - adding a decent video card will probably negate warranty etc. Bugger.

It shouldn't negqate the warranty, unless they're total asses. Adding any sort of card should be an upgrade performable by the user without warranty.

What model computer is it?

[Rapscallion]

After trying to get the wireless connection working with the correct drivers for both Vista and the equipment, I've come to the conclusion that Vista is about as stable as a caffeinated, twelve-tailed cat in a room full of perpetual-motion rocking chairs.

Rapscallion

[Rapscallion]

Mmm - adding a decent video card will probably negate warranty etc. Bugger.

Problem is, to get around that, I'd need to take it back to PC World (it seemed like a reasonable price at the time).

The installation so far...

Reasonably painless, only requiring one forced reboot. It failed to burn the first recovery CD-ROM, but since it gave me really bad grammar in the error message I was more miffed at that than anything else. Also, it was the ACER message, not Vista, that caused the grammatial faux pas. I'm trying to get it recognising the Internet. Now I have the correct device driver (49Mb for a USB adapter!), I should be able to get that going properly, but it's a bit of an arse so far.

Rapscallion

[rvdammit]

Raps

Sounds like shared ram as it's got on board graphics. That's a trick usually reserved for, and expected on, laptops.

[Rapscallion]

Parents just upgraded to a new computer. If it had one Gb of ram, it would be better than mine *wince*

Well, apart from the graphics. It's got onboard graphics (I'll have to see what grade they are).

So far, it's pretty, but it's still installing. I may let you know more when I have more to report, or if you bug me.

EDITNOTE - it's actually supposed to have 1Gb, but currently claiming 768. Hmmm...

Rapscallion