Doctor Who Discussion [Spoiler Zone!]

[KatherineB]

the only part I didn't like was the doctor abandoning them as soon as he thought he was safe and that no one is dealing with the dream crab still on earth.

That's actually been my major issue with both Eleven and Twelve - they really only seem to care about the safety of their companions. The rest of the world can go to hell as long as those people they have decided are special are okay. Maybe it's selfish on my part, but I've always loved the thought that everyone matters to the Doctor, not just a few people who intrigue him for one reason or another.

That said, I did think this was the best Christmas special yet, although I would have loved it more if Clara hadn't been in it at all and we'd had a chance to get to know each of the other three base people in real life, particularly the one who died.

[gremcint]

the only part I didn't like was the doctor abandoning them as soon as he thought he was safe and that no one is dealing with the dream crab still on earth.

[KhirasHY]

I really enjoyed the special this year. And for anyone who tries to convince me otherwise, I am only going to say this in response: "Giant Cyberman in Victorian London."

This was much, much better.

[Kheldarson]

Here's one for you. See if you can guess which of the four other characters was slated to be her replacement.

I'd guess Shona. She's the only one given any screentime to develop a base personality.

[Ben_Who]

That's fine, but the plot twist was obvious from the beginning (he showed the faces. Why would yo do that?), Santa may have been acting well but was horribly mean which put me off immediately, and did we seriously have to crap on Clara's wish fulfillment immediately and that heavily?

I mean, I expect creepy from Doctor Who. I expect a low. But there's a triumphant high to match or surpass it usually. There wasn't one here.

And Clara's original leaving point was obvious as well.

Here's one for you. See if you can guess which of the four other characters was slated to be her replacement.

I personally have nothing against Clara in the abstract, but dear God, she's had one foot out the door all season. I think she left the Doctor never to see him again at least five times. It might be that I'm not as comfortable with the idea of a "part-time companion" as I thought I was; at first it seemed clever that the Doctor's sidekick could hold a job and have a family and still pop off for adventure weekends, but now it just seems uncommitted and insecure, and it tends to tie the narrative down.

[Kheldarson]

I'm going to respectfully disagree, as I thought the Christmas special was top notch. A bit predictable at times in the whole Inception dream-within-a-dream aspect, but overall, good writing, good acting, nice twists. I give it a definite thumbs up.

That's fine, but the plot twist was obvious from the beginning (he showed the faces. Why would yo do that?), Santa may have been acting well but was horribly mean which put me off immediately, and did we seriously have to crap on Clara's wish fulfillment immediately and that heavily?

I mean, I expect creepy from Doctor Who. I expect a low. But there's a triumphant high to match or surpass it usually. There wasn't one here.

And Clara's original leaving point was obvious as well.

[mjr]

Wait...so just how many "layers" of dreams were they in?? I think I counted at least 4.

And toward the end when they (SPOILER ALERT) were flying along with Santa, and The Doctor asked Clara if she believed in Santa, she said something like, "I've always believed in Santa, he just looks a little different to me." then hugs the Doctor...

Well, my wife and I kinda looked at each other and snickered there...

[Jester]

I'm going to respectfully disagree, as I thought the Christmas special was top notch. A bit predictable at times in the whole Inception dream-within-a-dream aspect, but overall, good writing, good acting, nice twists. I give it a definite thumbs up.

[Kheldarson]

Christmas special. What the hell.

Rushed, made me feel horrid, and dear Lord, the ending.

[KatherineB]

Moff's other female characters who play major roles in his episodes:

Madame de Pompadour/Reinette (Girl in the Fireplace)
Sally Sparrow (Blink)
Kathy Nightingale (Blink)
Miss Evangelista (Library stories)
Jenny Flint
Madame Vastra
Abigail Pettigrew (A Christmas Carol)
Madge Arwell (The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe)
Lorna (A Good Man Goes to War)
Journey Blue (Into the Dalek)
Sabra (Time Heist)
Various incarnations of Cloara

And perhaps a controversial one - the Mistress. Feel free to argue that one to your heart's content. *g*

[gremcint]

there are some one offs like the girl from blink.

[Jester]

So which female characters were Moffat's? Off the top of my head, I can only come up with Clara, Amy, and the majority of our time spent with the good Dr. Song.

[XCashier]

And the reason I'm going back all the way to the robot is because I don't know precisely which women are Moffat's creations/responsibility and which aren't.

Russell T. Davis was the forerunner of the reboot. Rose, Jackie, Martha and Donna were all his characters.

[Moirae]

Thanks Jester. I think he wasn't watching the same show the rest of us have been. Until Clara, I have loved the show. Now I can't stand to watch it.

[Jester]

As for Clara, she's in the Moffat pattern he has for all women. Have them be independent at the beginning and suddenly decided to settle down and not have a personality.

And now you've put me in the unfortunate position of having to defend Moffat. You're gonna owe me a beer for this.

Forget Clara for a moment, let's look at the other women in the series since its been rebooted. And the reason I'm going back all the way to the robot is because I don't know precisely which women are Moffat's creations/responsibility and which aren't. So I've addressed, I believe, most of the major ones.

Rose Tyler: She didn't decide to settle down at all, she was basically forced to another plane. Abandoned by The Doctor, some would say. Never lost her personality, and even came back across to help on a few occasions. Rose does not fit the pattern you describe.

Jackie Tyler: She was never really independent, not in a strong personality sort of way, so she doesn't fit the pattern. And she didn't decide to settle down so much as she got reunited with her dead husband, after a fashion. But I can grant you that that is, in a way, settling down at the end.

Martha Jones: Very independent....pretty much always. She decided to stop traveling with The Doctor, but she never stopped having her personality, and the only suggestion that she settled down was the hint in the final Tennant episode that she ended up with Mickey....fighting aliens. Hardly the traditional "settling down." So she doesn't fit your pattern.

Donna Noble: She never stopped being Donna, for good or bad, even after The Doctor stripped her of h memory. Hardly fits the pattern.

Amy Pond: She was set to marry Rory even before The Doctor came back into her life the second time, and the first time as an adult. And their story is hardly the traditional settling down, either. They traveled with The Doctor until those travels took Rory from Amy, and she followed her love where many might not have. She never lost her personality, ever. Nope, no pattern here.

Dr. River Song: Independent and quirky from beginning to end, if we've truly seen her end. She settled down in the sense that she got married, but she married The Doctor. If that's what you define as settling down, I've clearly got a different idea of the phrase than you do. In no way fits this or just about any other pattern.

Even Harriet Jones doesn't fit your pattern. She was independent, though never fiercely so (like Rose or Amy), and her personality stayed mostly the same throughout her appearances, though of course she did have a big of a harder edge to her when she was the Prime Minister. And it would be an interesting argument to make her final appearance "settling down" in any way.

So....just which female characters WERE you talking about?