Doctor Who Discussion [Spoiler Zone!]

[Jay 2K Winger]

I agree that Capaldi is still finding his feet with Twelve, and bear in mind also that this is Twelve almost immediately after regeneration, when the Doctor is always more manic/insane/confused than ever. When Nine became Ten, we missed out on some of that, because he was mostly comatose for the duration of his debut episode, and even after he settled down a bit to confront the Sycorax, he expressed some doubts/confusion about his new self.

And when Ten became Eleven, there was some of that strange behavior as well, but it seems like Eleven intentionally held back some of it, because the first person he met after regenerating was a scared little girl who needed his help, and he didn't want to frighten her more than she was already. Most of his confusion was expressed then with his getting used to his new tastebuds.


I can see where people are coming from with the whole Missy = River Song angle, except if Missy were River, she wouldn't refer to the Doctor as "my boyfriend." (They got married, remember.)

I've also seen theories elsewhere that Missy is supposed to be some aspect of the TARDIS, perhaps spun off as a result of escaping her own supposed death at Trenzalore, and having developed an obsession with the Doctor. I don't think this is likely, however. If Missy were part of the TARDIS, I doubt if she'd call him "my boyfriend." Remember, again, that Neil Gaiman's episode featuring Idris was called "The Doctor's Wife." And even then, she called him "my thief." I suppose, of course, in her Yandere obsession, she might think he's her boyfriend, but, as I said, I'm not sure I believe this theory.

[firecat88]

Heaven/Paradise looked suspiciously like the planet that the Doctor, Amy, and Rory visited in 'The Girl Who Waited'. I don't know if they're going somewhere with that or if they just recycled the set and hoped no one would notice.

Also, I am glad that they very bluntly established the 'I am not your boyfriend' thing between 12 and Clara. As for 12 himself, I very much already like him. The eyebrow rant was hilarious (actually, like Jester said, that whole entire alley scene was brilliant). Veeeeeery curious to see where he'll go from here. And who his next companion will be since apparently Coleman is leaving the show after Christmas.

[Jester]

And absolutely hated the way they resolved the issue between Clara and the Doctor. I'm sorry, why couldn't the new incarnation have found a way to convince her over having a callback? It undermined the new character!

Completely agree. Ten won over Rose on his own. Eleven never had any old companions to win over. Twelve had to rely on Eleven? And just what in The Doctor's history of regenerations would lead him to think that that would be necessary?

Common theory is that Missy was somehow River Song.

There were definitely some River-esque qualities about her personality.

The worst there was the final scene between Clara and the Doctor, as they walked off on the sidewalk. It sounded exactly like Amy and 11 talking, and gave the impression Moffat just wanted to bring them back again.

I didn't hear Amy in that, but I can see the Eleven side. And Moffat tipped his hand about it when he had Twelve mutter "At times like this I miss Amy." Funny, I admit, but really? Too bad for Moffat Amy is off fighting the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Second, the Doctor confronting the Half-Faced Man. That scene with the line "I have the horrible feeling I'm gonna have to kill you" and offering the drink. Capaldi owned that scene and made the Doctor his more than anywhere else in the episode.

Definitely his strongest scene, and where I thought at the time that Twelve was finally "waking up" and coming into his own as The Doctor. And then he reverted back to being confused and needy. Ugh.

It was when The Doctor was in the alley...

His other best scene. Utterly hilarious, the whole thing.

And apparently now The Doctor can speak dinosaur...

Nothing new there. He can speak baby, too. This part didn't surprise me so much.

And one thing we couldn't figure out was when the half-faced robot guy was in Heaven/Paradise, the lady there mentioned "my boyfriend". Was she referencing The Doctor there?

Almost certainly. And this has nothing to do with any great insight into the show on my part. It's just that she actually asked if Half Face jumped, or if her "boyfriend" threw him. Pretty much a dead on reference to The Doctor, wouldn't you say?

[Kheldarson]

Not really being interested in Doctor Who until fairly recently, I don't know a lot of the "back story" for the characters.

Who was the green lizard-looking lady? What was her function?

That's Vastra. She's an ancient dinosaur/reptilian race that the Doctor faced and came to a compromise with. She's helping prepare for the day the rest of her race returns, per agreement.

Were the half-face man and the robot people just the Cybermen trying to look "human" or something?

No. There's an episode in Tennant's run where they were in a ship that was keeping itself alive by harvesting parts from people. This is the same type of ship/scenario.

Who was the fat, squat, melted-piece-of-chocolate looking dude?

That's Strax. He's a Sontaran who's paying a debt off to the Doctor. So he's no longer a warrior but a Nurse.

And apparently now The Doctor can speak dinosaur...

And baby The TARDIS has a translation function.

And one thing we couldn't figure out was when the half-faced robot guy was in Heaven/Paradise, the lady there mentioned "my boyfriend". Was she referencing The Doctor there?

More than likely.

[mjr]

Not really being interested in Doctor Who until fairly recently, I don't know a lot of the "back story" for the characters.

Who was the green lizard-looking lady? What was her function? Were the half-face man and the robot people just the Cybermen trying to look "human" or something? Who was the fat, squat, melted-piece-of-chocolate looking dude?

One line made me giggle. It was when The Doctor was in the alley, and he was looking in the mirror and complaining about his face ("Why this face??") and he figured out he was Scottish (I think it was), and said something like, "That means I can complain about everything!"

And his whole, "That's not the question. The real question is..."

And apparently now The Doctor can speak dinosaur...

My wife and I briefly discussed what we thought happened to the half-faced man. We were wondering if he jumped, or if The Doctor actually did kill him by pushing him.

And one thing we couldn't figure out was when the half-faced robot guy was in Heaven/Paradise, the lady there mentioned "my boyfriend". Was she referencing The Doctor there?

[KabeRinnaul]

Common theory is that Missy was somehow River Song.

I'm convinced the reality will actually be stupider than that.

Though the Missy=Mistress=Master argument isn't too unreasonable to me.

Throughout the whole thing, I couldn't help but feel they were trying to make Capaldi into "Smith but with grey hair". For almost the entire episode, everything that 12 did, I could easily see 11 doing. The worst there was the final scene between Clara and the Doctor, as they walked off on the sidewalk. It sounded exactly like Amy and 11 talking, and gave the impression Moffat just wanted to bring them back again.

There were two scenes I really liked. First, Vastra casually trying to get Clara to take her clothes off. That was great.

Second, the Doctor confronting the Half-Faced Man. That scene with the line "I have the horrible feeling I'm gonna have to kill you" and offering the drink. Capaldi owned that scene and made the Doctor his more than anywhere else in the episode.

[Kheldarson]

I think I like Capaldi, but I'm real tired of Moffat. I kept feeling like saying "yes, we get it" the whole way through.

And absolutely hated the way they resolved the issue between Clara and the Doctor. I'm sorry, why couldn't the new incarnation have found a way to convince her over having a callback? It undermined the new character!

Other than that, it was OK. But I'm not completely sold on it yet.

[Jester]

My impressions of the first Twelve episode:

I don't know yet if I like or dislike Capaldi. He was very, very confused. And yes, he's supposed to be, but he is far more confused and confusing than either Ten or Eleven were in their first episodes.

Clara and the other companions were typically brilliant.

My bigger problem with the Deep Breath than Twelve's confusion was the script's confusion. The whole story seemed muddled and directionless. Basically, it was the polar opposite of a brilliant story like, say, Blink. And it lacked the dynamic of The Eleventh Hour or The Christmas Invasion, Eleven's and Ten's first episodes, respectively.

It just fell flat to me. I hope it picks up. I really do.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Everyone's favorite time-traveling Time Lord is back!

Freshly regenerated into the form of Peter Capaldi, the Doctor has to try to discover what his new incarnation is like as a person.


THERE WILL BE SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD! NO NEED TO SPOILER-HIDE ANYTHING!

Questions after "Deep Breath"
= What is the Promised Land/Paradise/Heaven?
= Who gave Clara the Doctor's number? Who placed the ad in the newspaper?
= Who is Missy?

My theory about question 2 is that Missy passed out that information. As for who Missy is, I think she is The Master, escaped from Gallifrey and regenerated once again. The Promised Land is inside Missy/The Master's TARDIS.